Did Vader want to Overthrow Palpatine from Episode 3 on?

This is another one of those questions that bug's me, In Episode 3 i believe Vader wants to overthrow Palpatine and says so to Padme..Something to the effect of I'm more powerful then him i can overthrow him and then we can rule the Galaxy. he also calls it "His new Empire" I think had he not been cut up and burned and then stuffed into that suit he was thinking of overthrowing Palp's and even in Episode 6 ROTJ he starts thinking about overthrowing him again IMO because he tells Luke they can overthrow Palp's and rule the Galaxy as father and son...Vader seems very opportunistic to overthrowing the Emperor....Thoughts anyone?

 

Anakin defnintely wanted to overthrow Sidious in ROTS. He thought he was good enough, and he could have been, but as you said, he got sliced up. After the suit was on, it was obvious to Vader he was not powerful enough to overthrow his Master. When Luke comes along, Vader believes that if they team up, they can beat Sidious and rule the Galaxy as father and son. But I believe he had no hope in a "A New Hope" to defeat the Emperor. How ironic.

 

He certainly WANTED to, but as said above it was a matter of ability. If he could have found a chance to take him out (Like for instance if he was busy electrocuting someone....) he would.

Carnage

 

As i have said before Anakin would of overthrowed the Emperor if it had not been for Obi-Wan,he ruined any chance of it.

 

Anakin/Vader always wanted to kill Sidious. Up until the duel with ObiWan he needed Sidious to save Padme, and after the duel he couldn't kill Palpatine.

In Dark Lord, he pretty much tells Sidious he wants to kill him.

 

Yeah I pretty much think Vader was after Palpatine from the get go...he just needed an apprentice to get the ball rolling...I think if Luke would've turned that would've been AWESOME!!!

 

Vader: One day, one day you won't be looking Master and POW! Right down the reactor shaft. *shakes fists*

 

Did Vader want to Overthrow Palpatine from Episode 3 on?

Well, I'm ever hopeful that GL will answer that one in the live-action 'tweener' TV series.

But my guess, based upon Vaderkin's maniac-like tirade to Padme on Mustafar, is a resounding yes.

We don't get much indication of Vader's percolating delusions of grandeur in ANH, but if you read enough into certain scenes, Vader's zeal for finding the stolen DS plans could be interpreted as him protecting what he sees as a powerful asset once under his direct influence -- if he gets Tarkin out of the way. Irregardless of whether or not Vader planeed to overthrow Palpatine before hand, after Han zaps Vader's figher and Luke 'forces' his way to destroy the DS, Vader is abruptly forced to suddenly consider a rather drastic and unexpected change plans.

From the opening scroll of TESB, we can finally see Vader's won rebellious intent -- to find Luke and rule the Empire as father and son. Since we now know the Sith rule of two, tht demands the death of Palpatine.

As he once dreamed so long ago, his destiny is to head a family dynasty -- or so he thinks!

 

Yes he did, it is the way of the Sith.

But Vader did need The Emporer, "for a time"

 

In the ROTS & Dark Lord: Rise Of Darth Vader novels it is mentioned that he wished to overthrow him.

 

Yes- if Obi hadn't crippled him Vader would have have killed Palpatine as soon as the twins had been born.

 

In RotS, Vader definately wanted to overthrow Sidious. He thought he was powerful enough then.

After Mustafar is a different story.

After the suit, Vader had nothing. He lost the will to live much less the will to try and overthrow the most powerful Sithlord in thousands of years. He knew he had to learn from Sidious in order to overthrow him. As was said in Dark Lord, he basically told Sidious he would overthrow him someday when he was no longer needed.

Vader basically accepted his fate as apprentice so he could master the darkside, the same power that Anakin thought he had already mastered before Kenobi chopped him up.

Only when Luke came around did the feelings of overthrowing Sidious pop back up.

So to answer the question. No

After Mustafar Vader accepted his fate and put the overthrowing idea on the back burner in order to learn and master the darkside. It took Luke to bring about the idea again. With Luke at his side Sidious is a dead man. Except it turned out to be Vader by Lukes side, but Sidious is still a dead man. Don't F with the Skywalkers.

 

The last scene involving Vader in Dark Lord shows him thinking about how much he enjoys the respect he gets from officers of the Empire and that one day he'd kill Palpatine and everything would be his, as long as he can find an apprentice first. This is his reason to live. The dream of ruling the galaxy gives him something to live for,

 

The book also says that he wanted to rule the galaxy with Padme at his side, but the events of ROTS landed Palpatine on the throne while Vader was just his little enforcer. When Vader finds out that Luke was alive, it was sort of a way for him to "set things right".

 

I think he did wish to overthrow Palpy from the very get go, but I don't think he ever intended on doing it.
That was ofcourse untill little Luke came along and maybe that also convinved Vader that Palpy has been lying to him.
That and the fact that Vader realised that now he could somewhat do what he wished in EpIII. To rule the galaxy with his family. He makes it quite clear in ESB that he wished to do so.
Maybe he felt betrayed by Luke when Luke declined him. Hence he went back to Palpy untill he saw Luke being tortured in ROTJ. By then I think he may have figured "wait, Luke's doing all this for me" turns around and bollocks Palpy right off the ledge.

 

it talks about this in the rise of darth vader book. Vader wanted to overthrow the emperor from the get go and sidious was exspecting vader to try and over throw him. It also says one reason vader goes on living because he wants to overthrow sidious. In the begining of the book vader has lost all his confidence and sidious realizes he needs to wake the power in vader even if he risks his own life. I never bought into the fact that Vader needed just luke to kill the emperor I mean sidious had to kill plagueis in his sleep due to the fact plagueis was still more powerful then him. So i think vader could have done it anyway in his suit, it would just have been harder.

 

Exactly, the DL novel makes it sound like Vader really hasn't lost that much power. Hes lost all confidence and doesn't care about living anymore. Sidious also acknowledges the power that Vader still has in him. Thats why Sidious sends him on missions to hunt the Jedi so he will unleash his hate and power. By the end of the book he does just that, and is a crazy force to be reckoned with.

Never did it say Vader couldn't overthrow Sidious because he was too weak. He needed to learn from Sidious if he was to become strong enough to defeat him. The novel states that even with his injuries, Vader still has the power to overthrow Sidious. Its just gonna be more difficult. Thats why he is Sidious' apprentice for 20+ years. Then Luke came around and Vader saw his chance. He wanted Luke at his side, he didn't "need" him.

and the only reason Sidious wanted Luke is because he knew Vader wanted Luke. He wasn't trying to replace Vader because he wanted Luke killed in the begining. Sidious didn't want him until Vader said something about him being a powerful ally in TESB.

 

I'm sure in the twenty years that pass by before Luke came around that invitation was offered to one of the nameless rabble of victims that were hunted down.

 

Exactly. Look at Anakin's hesitation when he speaks about being more powerful then Palps and wanting to overthrow him. He needed Palpatine to learn the "secret" of eternal life and to further his training. Anakin's state of mind was unpredictable at that point though.

 

The bottom line is GL himself states "Vader could have beat Palpatine, if he hadnt got all beat up" but i now believe Vader knew he couldnt take Palp's, after reading some novels and watching Episode 5 with the commentary Lucas says Vader was selfish when he found out he had a son and wanted Luke to HELP HIM overthrow the Emporer...so i believe the mind was willing but the body was not.

 

Wait. Did Vader actually tell Sidious he wanted to destroy him? Can someone tell me a little more?

 

Wait. Did Vader actually tell Sidious he wanted to destroy him? Can someone tell me a little more?

If I remember correctly, Palpatine was pretty much taunting Vader. I *think* (I'm not sure) that Palpatine/Sidious asks Vader why he doesn't just kill him, and Vader tells him that he needs him to gain more power. Palpatine says something like "just like I needed my master. For a time." Vader then replies, "Yes, Master. For a time." Something like that. I don't have the book with me, so I'm not sure, though.

 

That's exactly what Vader says. It's not blatant, but implied. Palps had to be aware of Vader's frustration overall, especially with becoming the Emperor's new lap dog. Palps knows Vader's limitations and threatens to short-out his delicate electronics with lightning if Vader attempted to strike him down (I love it when he says that).

If the video game lends any credence to the argument, Vader takes Palpatine out on Mustafar after killing Obiwan in an alternate ending. I would have to agree with the point that if Vader hadn't lost 3 limbs and been nearly burned to death, Vader would have attempted to take Palps out earlier. Palps is aware of this though, as he tells Yoda before their battle.

 

Really? That's gruesome. "For a time." That's like saying, "When I'm done learning what I can you will die by my hands." Is it true that Vader still had the power to kill off Sidious? What kind of conversations they had in the story?

 

Anakin wanted to overthrow Palpatine from the very moment it was put in his mind that he no longer had to live the caged life of a Jedi and that his dreams could finally come true. After his duel with Obi-Wan, he certainly never lost those aspirations, but he did lose the terms of execution of them. Anakin is fast and cunning, Sidious is an old man. He could easily be killed in his sleep if by no other terms. However, after the duel on Mustafar, that was over. Anakin relied on Sidious so much that he couldn't have done was was necessary alone, so he waited.