PT Did we "always know" that Obi-Wan was the one to put Ani in the volcano?

I was ten years old when Phantom Menace came out, but thanks to a couple of uncles and a step-mum I was aware of a lot of the "lore" about the characters, and I always knew Vader was in his suit because he fell into a volcano.

But was it always known that Obi-Wan was the one to do it? Their exchange in New Hope makes it sound like they parted as friends, while he was still human - or at least that's what I took from it.

Maybe it would tie in more if the scene where Anakin apologizes to Obi-Wan and tells him he's a great teacher and Obi-Wan tells Anakin that he's a great student was their last scene together, and if Anakin's battle was either with a different Jedi, or if he literally fell in due to an accident.

 

Some people found out in August 1977:

Some found out in November 1977:

STAR WARS: OFFICIAL POSTER MONTHLY #2
Published November 1977 by Galaxy Publications. Text writers Jon Trux, John May, Michael Marten.
http://www.theforce.net/image_popup/image_popup_global.asp?Image=timetales/misc/arcana/post2-02.jpg

As on earth where we have White and Black Magic, so the Force has its dark side and Vader, for reasons that are unclear, became consumed by it. It led him to that fateful day when, in a fierce battle, he killed Luke Skywalker's father.
What is less well known is that Vader himself was then almost killed by Ben Kenobi, who was understandably enraged at his disciple's fall from grace. Vader's life might have ended then and there with a quick stab of a light saber; instead, during the fight, Vader stumbled backwards and fell into a volcanic pit where he was nearly fried alive. What remained was dragged out and preserved by encasing it in an outsized black metal suit - virtually a walking iron lung.


And some found out in 1983 when the RoTJ novel was published:

ROTJ novel:

"There is still good in him." he declared.
Ben shook his head remorsefully. "I also thought he could be turned back to the good side. It couldn't be done. He is more machine, now, than man - twisted, and evil."
Luke sensed the underlying meaning in Kenobi's statement. He heard the words as a command. He shook his head back at the vision. "I can't kill my own father."
"You should not think of that machine as your father." It was the teacher speaking again. "When I saw what had become of him, I tried to dissuade him, to draw him back from the dark side. We fought ... your father fell into a molten pit. When your father clawed his way out of that fiery pool, the change had been burned into him forever - he was Darth Vader, without a trace of Anakin Skywalker. Irredeemably dark. Scarred. Kept alive only by machinery and his own black will ..."


It was a face that had not seen itself in twenty years.
Vader saw his son crying, and knew it must have been at the horror of the face the boy beheld.
It intensified, momentarily, Vader's own sense of anguish - to his crimes, now, he added guilt at the imagined repugnance of his appearance. But then this brought him to mind of the way he used to look - striking, and grand, with a wry tilt to his brow that hinted of invincibility and took in all of life with a wink. Yes, that was how he'd looked once.
And this memory brought a wave of other memories with it. Memories of brotherhood, and home. His dear wife. The freedom of deep space. Obi-Wan.
Obi-Wan, his friend ... and how that friendship had turned. Turned, he knew not how - but got injected, nonetheless, with some uncaring virulence that festered, until ... hold. These were memories he wanted none of, not now. Memories of molten lava, crawling up his back ... no.
This boy had pulled him from that pit - here, now, with this act. This boy was good.
The boy was good, and the boy had come from him - so there must have been good in him, too. He smiled up again at his son, and for the first time, loved him. And for the first time in many long years, loved himself again, as well.

 

Wow Iron_lord , thanks for your detailed reply

 

First, it wasn't really Obi, it was Ani's own stupidity.

 

Right, there was the young jedi named Darth Vader, whom we knew was evil and there was Anakin, Luke's poor dad who got murdered.

The story about the volcano is something I feel I've always known, even as a little kid around ESB time. That was a great post above showing how early Lucas talked about it.

 

This is interesting. What if it had been set up so that Obi-Wan had actually become enraged and attacked Anakin so furiously that Anakin had fallen over an edge and caught fire as a result?

 

In the SW Visual Dictionary, it said that Vader was injured while fighting Obi-Wan in a volcanic planet.

 

We know from ANH, that there was an implication of a past confrontation when Obi-wan and Vader duel. So at the time the film came out, it was hinted at. The details didn't come out until later, as Iron_lord pointed out. I first heard of the nature of the duel when I read the novelization for ROTJ, back around 1993-94. I didn't own it until then.

 

Like others have said, it seemed common knowledge at the time of the OT. I hadn't read the ROTJ novel at the time, yet I still remember knowing Obi-Wan defeated Vader at the Lava Pit, per legend as a kid. It may have come out in the Marvel comics of the time, which I read frequently back in the day.

 

Darn it IL! This is so sad

 

Knew it from the RotJ novel aswell.

 

I didn't know that it was long planned until a few years when I read it on Wookieepedia.

 

Great assemblage of quotes. Never seen all three gathered together like that before. They clearly demonstrate that the "falls into a pit" idea was in play for the duration of the OT.

I like that description of Anakin in the ROTJ novel segment: "striking, and grand, with a wry tilt to his brow that hinted of invincibility and took in all of life with a wink." Although, semantically, that is preposterously-written, and should really read, "that hinted of invincibility and the taking in of all of life with a wink." Before the Special Edition excised this moment, it was, interestingly, Luke who winks at the ghost of Anakin at the end of the movie.

The emphatic, pedagogical nature of that same segment is also quite evident when reading it. The ROTS novelization is written in a similar fashion with regard to Anakin's thoughts and feelings. There is a nice parity between the two. Although, of course, much like Tolkien remarked of "The Lord of the Rings", The Tragedy of Anakin Skywalker is a tale that has grown in the telling. Although some might protest and say that it has only become shrunken and desiccated.

Anyway, to somewhat deal with the starting question, I don't recall a time when I didn't believe that Vader, to use Lucas' phrasing, was "one destroyed being". Perhaps I thought he was an alien for a while, but the sense of him being damaged in some way, to the best of my memory, has always been with me. And the idea of him being horrifically damaged, and by none other than Obi-Wan, his former teacher, is extremely potent; to the point, I suspect, of it becoming the dominant image that everyone wanted to see in some form, once they'd read of it. I note, just in typing that last sentence out, that "damaged by his teacher" works both literally (actual injuries/physical trauma) and figuratively (psychological damage/disequilibrium). This is the core of the backstory: the carrot that allowed Lucas to complete his story, for his own sake, first and foremost (I think he wanted to actually see it -- and create it -- as much as anyone), and then to work as a reasonable guarantee of turning a decent profit and being able to get to that end.

And what happens to Anakin in the PT -- the very Anakin we see (or perhaps don't see/perceive) in the PT -- manages to still all be true to that description, "from a certain point of view". He did look fairly "striking, and grand", whether meditating by a lake on Naboo as a striving padawan tormented by a vivid dream, or looking all ashen and gloomy as a faltering Jedi Knight and husband to a beautiful wife: the "Hero With No Fear". He was, perhaps, wry a little less often, but still managed to flirt with Padme and playfully tease her in the lush fields of Naboo, and certainly had a feeling of invincibility about himself in places, albeit with contrasting, adolescent doom. He could be warm to Obi-Wan ("Hold on, this whole operation was your idea..."), cocky and self-effacing to his opponents ("I am a slow learner..."), and could revel in the heat of tricky situations ("This is where the fun begins..."). He didn't have the easiest life as a young, frustrated, aspiring Jedi, and war changed his thoughts, but he did make quite a go of it under his mentor -- well, for a while.

Sliding toward a river of lava (again, symbolism!) is a good play on "falling in a pit"; and, though I hesitate to use this word where Star Wars is concerned, a touch more realistic. Perhaps Anakin originally fell in as a tragic accident. Perhaps his own ruthless arrogance, even in the earlier conception of the event, caused him to over-estimate his abilities (much as in ROTS), and he lost his footing at a crucial moment. And he may not have technically been "Darth Vader" originally, but the combination of the two entities, more or less made factual by the OT, was artfully done in the prequels, in my opinion. He is described to Luke by Obi-Wan as "a young Jedi"; one gets the immediate sense of a certain brashness or early character defect turning this guy bad. We see that in the PT, in my view. What disappears is simply the older, maturer, more adjusted Anakin. The prequels reveal that to have (ultimately) been something of a fantasy. Perhaps another bait of Obi-Wan's. Perhaps a fantastic archetype covering a darker corner of Lucas' mind he had not yet dared to venture into.

Just some thoughts from one fan to others.