Did Yoda's lightsaber battle diminish his credibility?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Anakin_Kenobi, Nov 27, 2002.

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  1. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    So then my original theory stands that the yoda duel is just a CTHD parody. Thats crazy I had no idea every shot was munked from a CTHD pose.

    Did the high flying stuff in CTHD bug me? The first time I saw it it did, I just don't like the way they run while they are in mid air, I think some of it is the weaker wire work I've seen, the way they move doesn't seem natural. That said I thoroughly enjoy CTHD, and it is a great film, but thats because it has a great script, with a weak script it would be jsut anohter kung fu movie, and a slow one at that. Which goes back to my original point, a films quality is built on the foundation of a strong script.

    Yes film is art, but not all art is good art, though which is which remains open to debate, thats why we have places like this.
    :)
  2. Little_Younglin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2002
    star 1
    Rebel Scum:

    So then my original theory stands that the yoda duel is just a CTHD parody.

    By that logic, the ObiWan-Vader duel is just a 'Hidden Fortress' parody. And the shooting of Sonny in 'The Godfather' is a 'Bonnie and Clyde' parody. ?[face_plain]

    EDIT: my point is: what is the difference between 'parody', 'ripoff', 'homage' and 'inspired by...'? And who decides where it's good and where it's bad? As you say, which art is good art is open to debate. Thanks the Maker, because otherwise this would be a very booooring world ;)

    I just don't like the way they run while they are in mid air, I think some of it is the weaker wire work I've seen, the way they move doesn't seem natural.

    IMHO, that's the whole point. I see that passage in the movie to be a kind of dream, an oniric scene. At least, that's my take on the scene, and someway of the movie in general.
  3. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    So then my original theory stands that the yoda duel is just a CTHD parody.

    I was wondering how long it would take before somebody jumped on the "Lucas ripped off movie x!" bandwagon.

    You say parody, I say homage. Big deal.
  4. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Many of the Asian films like CTHD had fights like that, were the rules of physics were tossed out the window. Lucas has always been inspired by Hollywood's past as well as films outside of Hollywood.
  5. ksid Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2002
    star 4
    Well at least Michelle Yeoh's not CGI, and not a joke IMHO.

    (Lee also tries to follow every live-action effects technique possible, before over-saturating with CG, that's why Shu Lien has credibility ;) )

    CTHD is a beautiful film, but that's also because the characterization's are very strong.

    Maybe George Lucas should get Ang Lee to do the characters and story in Ep III.

    Since he seems to follow Ang Lee's shots so closely.

    I'm sure, Lee would do grandly.

    I actually wished the PT and AOTC would follow the lyrical style of CTHD (not only in effects, but also in story and development) when I watched it for the first time. But that was not to be.


  6. Otis_Frampton LFL Artist, Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2001
    star 4
    <<Well at least Michelle Yeoh's not CGI, and not a joke IMHO.>>

    Why would she be? She's a human. Yoda is a fictional creature. Do you see the difference?

    <<Lee also tries to follow every live-action effects technique possible, before over-saturating with CG>>

    Right, that's why in the umcoming Hulk film the green goliath will be played by Michelle Yeoh.

    <<CTHD is a beautiful film>

    Many here would argue that AOTC is a beautiful film, also. I'm one of them. You're clearly not. We get it.

    <<but that's also because the characterization's are very strong>>

    Again, just like a little SW filck called . . oh, never mind. I'd hate to offend anyone else with my enjoyment of the film which is the subject of this message board.

    <<Maybe George Lucas should get Ang Lee to do the characters and story in Ep III.>>

    That job is already taken by someone who is more than qualified, sorry.

    <<Since he seems to follow Ang Lee's shots so closely.>>

    Again, "homage". I'm really starting to regret showing visual similarities from two amazing films that I happen to enjoy. I knew someone would show up to smear their disappointment all over them.

    <<I'm sure, Lee would do grandly.>>

    I'm sure Lucas will do better.

    <<I actually wished the PT and AOTC would follow the lyrical style of CTHD (not only in effects, but also in story and development) when I watched it for the first time. But that was not to be.>>

    Perhaps you were not watching the same film I was.

    -Otis
  7. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    Well I wouldn't want ANG LEE to make SW, but it jsut feels like a bit over done (the ben hur scene, the searchers scene, the gladiator scene, the CTHD scene, the 7 samuria scene, the american graphetti scene) homages are great but too many is too many, I mean look at ESB and ROTJ, its not like they have homages to other films.


    ANyway, like I said hoamges are fine, I jsut don't like the way Yoda acts all matrix/CTHD style because thats the trendy thing right now, matrix as suppsoe to be ground breaking but all it really spawned were endless parodies of itself like shrek and scary movie, I'd rather GL give us something we've never seen before. The mans a cinematic genius I'm sure he's got to have more in his bag of tricks then homaging inferior films, they should be the ones emulating him.
  8. Otis_Frampton LFL Artist, Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2001
    star 4
    People have been emulating Lucas and Star Wars (not to mention American Graffiti and Indiana Jones) for years.

    One of GL's strength is taking all of the ideas that influencing him and throwing them into a giant soup. The original Star Wars is chock full of cinematic and literary ideas from the past, AOTC is no different. Neither is ESB.

    Here's just one example:

    [image=http://www.jitterbug.com/origins/pix/cloud_city.jpg]

    The source of this image is:

    Star Wars Origins

    I highly recommend taking a look.

    -Otis

  9. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    theres a fine line between homage and theft.

    considering the copious amounts of designs/scenes/ideas/characters in the saga that came from somewhere else, i start to wonder why people think lucas is such a creative genius.

    his real genius seems to lie in creatively stealing everything from other movies/books/artists and repackaging it for his own use. after all he originally wanted to do a move of flash gordon. since he couldnt he did his "own" version.

    an homage is usually clear in its execution. there is a sort of "wink" that usually accompanies an homage. most of lucas's "homages" seem to me to be out and out theft. where are the winks?

    is the design of naboo an "homage" to the art of dinotopia? is the pod race an "homage" to ben hur? if so, where is the additional information that tells the viewer this?

    when a director does something as an homage, he or she usually makes it clear that it is an homage by placing various additional cues in the scene and usually the subject matter has something to do with the original work that is being paid tribute to, either as a joke or as a reflection of the original. i see none of this in GL's alleged "homages".
  10. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    So I take it from Dr. E's basherific post that he's not a fan of the original trilogy either considering that those films are chock full of homages of their own.

    YJ edit: Can you make it one post without using the word "basher" or some derivation of the word? See you in 24.
  11. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    I don't mind if something is ripped off as well as its done well. There are plenty original takes on unoriginal ideas that are immensely enjoyable.
  12. George15 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2002
    star 4
    "YJ edit: Can you make it one post without using the word "basher" or some derivation of the word? See you in 24."

    So, your banning him for using the word basher in his post?Talk about abusing your power.A ban was not warranted.He made a great point and didn't get off the topic by going into a rant about bashers.

    YJ edit: If you have a question about the reasoning behind a ban, PM me, and I'll explain in more detail. Please, keep this thread on topic.
  13. Otis_Frampton LFL Artist, Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2001
    star 4
    <<So I take it from Dr. E's (BANNED WORD) post that he's not a fan of the original trilogy either considering that those films are chock full of homages of their own.>>

    Some people try to have it both ways. They laud the OT for its various references to other sources while faulting the PT for the same thing.

    They even do it with the two existing prequel films. Episode I is widely praised even by (BANNED WORD) for the lightsaber duel which featured highly acrobatic displays of Jedi and Sith prowess. But the same type of scene in AOTC is critcized.

    Again, trying to have it both ways.

    It doesn't work that, but try telling them.

    Oh well.

    The Yoda duel continues to be one of the highlights of the film for me. I watched it frame by frame last night while making those screen caps, and the animation by Rob and his team is truly amazing work.

    -Otis
  14. Anakin_Kenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 1
    I agree, Otis, some people just can't be pleased.
  15. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    Nobody mentioned the acrobatics but you guys, I don't think thats what people have issue with at all.
  16. bjbrickm Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2002
    star 3
    You know what I just realized about this Yoda is just deux es machina crap? (Sorry if this point has been brought up before)

    In the beloved ESB, R2 just comes right up and just like that fixes the hyperdrive. The whole dang movie the hyperdrive won't work and little ol' R2 comes and saves the main characters. He even waits to do it, even though he knows it needs to be fixed. And he helps C-3PO at least get one leg on.

    Don't get me wrong. My top three SW characters, Anakin/Darth Vader aside since for me he's a special case, are Luke, Yoda, and R2.

    And I for one, am glad to see these (secondary, yet important) characters get to save the main characters.

    But let's not judge the prequels with one eye open and the other eye closed. Walk around like that, and you're likely to miss out on something and it just might cost you.
  17. Otis_Frampton LFL Artist, Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2001
    star 4
    (opens other eye)

    Hey! There's a Jawa doing something which can only be described as "unseemly" to R5-D4!

    No wonder he had a bad motivator. And to think I almost missed that.

    -Otis
  18. ksid Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2002
    star 4
    Both my eyes were open in disbelief :).

    Although, I understand different people see different things.





    Actually I didn't dislike AOTC as much as it may seem on the boards, I'll defend it with people who aren't Star Wars fans. There were good parts which were Star Warsy, Such as Anakin on Tatooine with his mother and the Tusken raiders, Yoda younglings etc. It's just that the film seems to be butchered by a few mistakes. Didn't GL say a film can be dragged down by a few things? So you have to put more good stuff in. To me it just seems the bad outweighs the good.
  19. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
  20. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
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