Did Yoda's lightsaber battle diminish his credibility?

By brother in law works at a blockbuster video store, and he says he gets more complaints about AOTC then any other movie, people bringing it back and calling it "compelte crap" and wanting their money back

Nice try I don't believe that for a second. If he did tell you that he was just trying to get you mad. Hello there are plenty of ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE movies that get returned everyday at blockbuster without complaint. I've done so myself. What idiot would want their money back on a movie they CHOSE to rent. Doesn't make any sense.

 

peopel are always trying to save a buck, i worked in a movie theatre for 6 years and plenty of people will complain if they don't like a movie and ask for free passes or a refund. Maybe your noble but a lot of people aren't. I'm not lying.

 

Didn't say you were. I said your brother in law is. I think the most disappointing movie I've rented is Spiderman. It was good in teh theater, but it just doesn't click on video. I didn't realize how many cheesy lines there were in spiderman. Much more that AOTC. Maybe that's becuase I only saw spiderman once in the theater.

 

"By brother in law works at a blockbuster video store..."

Poor guy.

 

yeah he hates it, but bare in mind he's still in high school so it make sense, but I'm not saying that its the only movie people complain about, but that recently he gets the most complaints about it. Plus most people really like spiderman so its likely to have less complaints

 

Most people like star wars too. THere just a very small minority of non fans that dislike it

 

are you kidding?

I worked in the theatre over the summer (free movies rule) and I can tell you thats not close to being the case. and not in some small hick town, down town toronto, one of the most prominent theatres.

AOTC is a favorite with fans, but not many non fans

 

That's intersting. But one theater in Toronto doesn't make you an expert on who likes it. I went and saw it 8 times and once on digital in Phoenix Arizona, and everysingle time it was packed. And I would say 95 percent of the poeple coming out of the theater were saying positive things about it. The fact that it made 300 plus million throws your theory out the window. 300 plus is very successful for a sequal.

 

hell no he;s a nasty little bugger with some dope moves yo

 

That's not what I meant; I think we can all agree that it was a fun scene to watch, but the point I'm arguing is that was it central to Yoda's character development? Remember, in ESB:

Yoda : "A jedi uses the Force for defence, never for attack"

....and yet in AOTC, we see him break out more offensive moves than anyone. Although I thought the scene was a nice, fun scene to view, I feel that, in terms of characterization and story, it wasn't that necessary.

 

but do remember that 80% of the average movie going audience is made up of idiots. People who watch lame game shows and soap operas, and play the lotto every week in desperate attempts to flee their crappy jobs. Most of these people are not SW fans, and they are just as much laughing at SW as they are with it. They don't care how the saga comes together as a whole they only care about 2 hours of enjoyment. Heck a lot of people thought Jake Lloyd was suppose to be young luke in TPM.

By brother in law works at a blockbuster video store, and he says he gets more complaints about AOTC then any other movie, people bringing it back and calling it "compelte crap" and wanting their money back. He knew I was a SW fan and felt it important to tell me this, for some reason.

, too true, too true. I wish life wasnt like that.

Giving people what they want is not nessesarily for the good of the movie as a whole. If GL took a poll and asked "how many people want to see C3P0 rap in ep3?" I'm sure at least 50% would vote yes. General audiences not fans. "Who wants to padme fight like the matrix?" again, at least 50%. and to me thats what yoda fighting feels like. Maybe it does fit with his character, I don't agree, but giving it the benefit of the doubt, even if it wasn't the intent it jsut feels like another crouching tiger/matrix parody ala Shrek, scary movie and a dozen other films.

True, true. Thats half the problem; people just want to see action, explosions and Kung-fu, and with AOTC; GL gave it to them. I'm not speaking for RebelScumb here, but whatever seems to be the current fad; GL fits in with it. I'm betting right now that Episode III will have a "LOTR" flavour to it. What it means is stuff like the story, depth and meaning get abandoned in favour of cheap thrills. I always thought Star Wars was above the current trend, but now GL sees something like the Matrix and he thinks, "oh, I know, I'll put in a fast kung-fu fight into the next one, they seem to like that".

 

Nice try I don't believe that for a second. If he did tell you that he was just trying to get you mad. Hello there are plenty of ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE movies that get returned everyday at blockbuster without complaint. I've done so myself. What idiot would want their money back on a movie they CHOSE to rent. Doesn't make any sense.

You don't understand. Most people rent a film in the same way that you or I might go to an Indian Restaraunt. If the food wasn't acceptable, you'd complain or walkout. The Indian food was no big deal to you, it tasted bad; so you left. Its the same thing for them; if the film bored them, they have no qualms about taking it back and demanding a refund. They don't care if person X was in it or who directed it.

 

I'd be able to buy out the SW franchise , if I got a refund for every bad movie I've paid to see. Maybe I should start complaining.

 

"True, true. Thats half the problem; people just want to see action, explosions and Kung-fu, and with AOTC; GL gave it to them. I'm not speaking for RebelScumb here, but whatever seems to be the current fad; GL fits in with it. I'm betting right now that Episode III will have a "LOTR" flavour to it. What it means is stuff like the story, depth and meaning get abandoned in favour of cheap thrills. I always thought Star Wars was above the current trend, but now GL sees something like the Matrix and he thinks, "oh, I know, I'll put in a fast kung-fu fight into the next one, they seem to like that".

Amen to that,man.

 

Well, to be completely honest, I laughed when Yoda pulled out his lightsaber and started swinging it around. Somehow I found it funny. It's a great scene, but I'm not sure that GL intended it to be comical. Did the scene diminish Yoda's credibility? I don't think so. I mean, when I got out of the theater that was the part that everyone was talking about, and they weren't making fun of it. They were saying things like, "Wow, that was so cool!" It's the part that everyone remembered and looked forward to, or at least my friends and I did, when AOTC came out on video/DVD. Most people (at least I assume this from what I've seen and heard) thought the scene only further proved how skilled and powerful Yoda is. And even I, who laughed at the scene, didn't even consider Yoda's credibility as I watched it. Too deep for me, such thinking is.

 

Oh yeah, it did diminish his character. It sucks out all the goodness built up by, and stored in, TESB and ROTJ. Then again, what do you expect. Lucas has constantly raped and pillaged from his own treasure trove in making these films. Thing is, I don't think there's much treasure left in the vault to spend, or will he use the rest of it up in Episode III?

 

"I always thought Star Wars was above the current trend"

I've seen no evidence in ep2(or the pt for that matter)of GL following current trends.So I find your accusations baseless.

"Giving people what they want is not nessesarily for the good of the movie as a whole"

Hmmm that's strange.Usually bashers are complaining about GL not making the movie the way they wanted it to be.Thats why they edit the film to their tastes.So, I think that's kind of funny you said that.

 

Oh no Yoda was spinning around and bouncing off walls.That so diminishes his character.Why George Why!?!?!?![edited]

YJ edit: That isn't funny, even if you are kidding.

 

"Oh no Yoda was spinning around and bouncing off walls.That so diminishes his character.Why George Why!?!?!?![edited]"


Okay, now you're taking it a little too far. I never said ruined; I said diminished. There's a difference. Even GL himself has said that the Yoda fight was mainly for the fans(in fact,and correct me if I'm wrong, it was supposed to be Mace vs. Dooku if the Yoda fight didn't work well). If you say that it doesn't "ruin" his character, can you please tell me what the fight does add to it? And don't give me the old "well, it shows that Yoda is DA MAN!"(sorry, that commercial just came on ^_^)excuse; give me real evidence that the fight escalated his stature as a Jedi/improved his presence in terms of story, plot development,etc.

YJ edit: Removed part of comment that was quoted

 

"If you say that it doesn't "ruin" his character, can you please tell me what the fight does add to it? And don't give me the old "well, it shows that Yoda is DA MAN!"

Well it shows Yoda is Da Man j/k.It's more informative than anything.We learn how yoda fights and that he his dooku's former master.We also learn that Yoda probabley told luke not to rescue his friends, because of what happened in ep2.He learns that the lives of the ones close to you arn't worth saving if it means you'll jeopardize the lives of billions+.

 

"Hmmm that's strange.Usually bashers are complaining about GL not making the movie the way they wanted it to be.Thats why they edit the film to their tastes.So, I think that's kind of funny you said that."

I don't want it the way 'I want it' or the way 'X wanted it' or the way 'Y wanted it', I want a solid movie. Do I think I could make a perfect SW movie. No. Do I have an idea of whats wrong with AOTC; yes.
But whoever said it was right, SW never felt like it was pandering before, but AOTC seems catered bring back everyone who hated TPM rather then just being a good movie.

"We learn how yoda fights and that he his dooku's former master."

But why did we need to know that?

 

Yoda : "A jedi uses the Force for defence, never for attack"

....and yet in AOTC, we see him break out more offensive moves than anyone

Do you know how utterly rediculous that sounds? You make it seem like Yoda and the Jedi are pacifists, when they are anything but. In the entire duel Yoda acts in SELF DEFENSE. Notice that Yoda does not hurl objects at Dooku, he only repels his attacks. And Yoda only draws his lightsaber after Dooku does.

 

Yoda speaks from experience. Remember, the OT takes place after the PT. Many of the sayings that he says in the OT are reflections back on actions he took in the PT.

 

Sigh...here we go again...

"...but does it serve the story?"

Hm...Anakin hoping in the speeder didn't serve the movie. The dug spouting "Jedi Poodoo!" didn't serve the movie. The reunion scene with Jar Jar babbling for no reason didn't serve the story. The scene outside the garage on Tatooine didn't serve the story. Yoda's meditation didn't serve the story...

Get my point? There are many many elements in movies that don't serve the story, but they're there anyways, because without it they'd be extremely boring.

Yes, Jedi never use the Force for attack, true, but was Yoda ever attacking? He deflected all the objects hurled at him, and he activated his saber secondly, in a response to Dooku's aggression. Sure, he could have chose not to fight back, but why? He'd have probably been killed. Perhaps those weren't offensive but defensive moves? Perception my friends, that is the key word here. To rightly treat this thread, no I don't think his credibility is diminished in the least.

Also, has anyone noticed you can get away with murder on this forum by saying IMO? Of course it's your opinion, everything is. Yet, it seems to make a difference whether or not you state it. Odd...

 

Did it diminish his credibility? No, I don't personally think so. Perhaps hes gotten wiser between the PT and OT, and realized that a jedi should only defend and not attack.

Did it serve the story? I dunno. Maybe, maybe not. But I don't think that was what was going through Lucas' mind when he thought up the idea to make Yoda fight ( If that was even his idea). He was thinking "Whats gonna make AOTC look cool to my fans?" Sure he didn't have to show it, but he did. It was a gimmick. And I know no one wants to admit it, but the PT has reeked of gimmicks. He wanted to top the double bladed lightsabre, thats all. It was just another gimmick to get people to see his movies. And, on top of that, it was a gimmick that he may well have used before AOTC, had he had the technology he has now. I know that we all are supposed to know that Yoda was a great warrior. But we hadn't seen it. And I don't think Lucas was happy with us not seeing it. Lucas is completely visual when it comes to his films. If you gave him a choice of telling the audience something, and showing them something, he'll always pick showing it over mearly telling us about it. It was eye candy. I know everyone wants to think that there is some deeper meaning to the scene, revealing something about Yoda's character, but in the end, cahnces are, there isn't.