Did Yoda's lightsaber battle diminish his credibility?

At first I was obsessed with this scene, but after time, I just don't know.

 

"his credibility"?

HA! This is silly.

Yoda is a badass. It may be uncomfortable at first, but adjust.

 

It was a fun scene, I enjoyed it, but I do understand the opinions of those who didn't like the scene. Still, after enduring countless corny love dialogue, I consider the scene to be the..."reward" (for lack of a better term) for my patience.

 

I thought that Yoda's lightsaber battle was like a more "faster" version of the ANH duel and I enjoyed every minute of that duel.

Did it diminish his credibility? YOU GOT TO BE JOKING!!! It magnified his credibility to the heavens and sure, he says "a Jedi uses the force for knowledge and defense, NEVER for attack" but that didn't mean a Jedi is forbidden to fight nor did Yoda say he is not a fighter.

I'm sure many of you wanted to know how Yoda fights and Lucas granted us our wish by having THE Jedi Master wield his lightsaber.

Yoda is now officially the Mr. Miyagi of Star Wars.

 

I don't have a problem with seeing Yoda duel, but I do have a problem with how useless Yoda is. Honestly, if his objective was to stop Dooku from getting away why didn't he redirect the Sith lightning onto Dooku's ship? He could have damaged it and prevented him from getting away.

And Yoda's skills in the lightsaber duel leave a lot to be desired. He doesn't land a single blow. I don't mind him spinning and bouncing if it helps him, but there are times when he does a little spin where, if he'd just stood still and stuck his lightsaber out he could have hit Dooku.

So, ultimately, I'd say that the lightsaber battle does diminish Yoda's character because it makes him look like anything but a master.

 

I really enjoyed watching Yoda fight in the movies. It was edge of my seat fun.
But I was waiting for him to kill the darn guy, or maybe even cut off an arm or leg. Nothing happened? I was really disipointed. I do think Yoda is better then that. And what makes it really bad is that Dooko said he was stronger the Yoda. I think George could have done better with the part. Other then that it's a pretty good movie!

 

Going back to my first reply
I think Yoda can do better, maybe he will show his full powers off in Epsiode III.
Who knows?

 

"Hm...Anakin hoping in the speeder didn't serve the movie."

Well somebody had to go save obi-wan and catch Zam.

"The dug spouting "Jedi Poodoo!" didn't serve the movie."

True, but its maybe .5 of a second. Its a bit silly I agree.

"The reunion scene with Jar Jar babbling for no reason didn't serve the story."

Sure it did, it reintroduced the characters to each other and hte audience, they hadn't seen each other in a long time. If anything the movie suffers from not enough jarjar.

"The scene outside the garage on Tatooine didn't serve the story."

The confession scene? Isn't that the heart of the movie? Maybe you're talking about a different scene, I dunno.

"Yoda's meditation didn't serve the story"

I can agree with that one. Though I'm told the qui-gon thing will be relevant in future episodes.


"Also, has anyone noticed you can get away with murder on this forum by saying IMO? Of course it's your opinion, everything is. Yet, it seems to make a difference whether or not you state it."

I agree, I hate having to point out the obvious IMHO, but there's a big group of people who will jump down your throat if you don't with ridiculous statements like "prove it" or "thats just your opinion" or "how would you know, wait till you've directed 5 sci-fi films then we'll talk"

And I don't have a problem with Yoda fighting, or the jedi fighting, heck luke went to Jabba's palace to assassionate jabba. Qui-gon and obi-wan were about to take out the viceroy when the droid deka showed up. I just htink the yoda fight, in the context of the whole movie makes a boring and inapproriate climax to everything else we've seen. As does mace killing jango. Its a let down.

 

And Yoda's skills in the lightsaber duel leave a lot to be desired. He doesn't land a single blow. I don't mind him spinning and bouncing if it helps him, but there are times when he does a little spin where, if he'd just stood still and stuck his lightsaber out he could have hit Dooku

Ah, I was about to point this out (just got back from lectures ). Spinning is cool, but useless spinning??? Sonic the Hedgehog's spinning helps him beat Doctor whathisname (sorry, been a long time since I played the game ). Yoda's spinning didin't help with Dooku at all.

 

Yeah, why not just slice dooku at the ankle and cripple him? He's in perfect striking range,and fighting someone that small would be tough. I gues thats one of my other problems, the fight accomplished nothing. Of all three duels, there was no consquence, except anakin losing his arm which is severely under played compared with Lukes 'de-handing' just like most people don't even realize that zam got her arm chopped off by obi-wan. Dooku should of made his revelation about sidious in the hanger, not while talking to obi-wan.


"And, on top of that, it was a gimmick that he may well have used before AOTC, had he had the technology he has now. I know that we all are supposed to know that Yoda was a great warrior. But we hadn't seen it. And I don't think Lucas was happy with us not seeing it."

You nailed it right on the head. If GL had unlimited technology and money when he made the OT, the OT would be nothing like it is. It would have lavish costumes, millions of aliens, more ground batttles, less space battles. Less mystery more granduer, it would be set in the core systems. More complex landscapes, bigger battles, more characters.

The problem is thats not the trilogy we fell in love with. Restraint breeds creativity, and GLs comprimised SW trilogy is more interesting, creative and magical then his uncomprimised prequel trilogy, he doesn't have to think as creatively because theirs no barrieers in his way, no obsticales. ANd I'm not slamming him, this would happen to anyone, any director. This is why the prequels are the way they are. I don't blame GL for it, if I had his toys I'd want to play with them too, but the PT would be creatively/artistically more interesting in story and character if he had a smaller canvas to work with. If he still had to face massive technical limitations, and producers and studio types he had to answer to. When if hte movie tanked at the box office it would make a difference to him finacially, or at the very least professionally. But the movies are critic proof and even audience proof. I was let down by ep2 but I'm still going to go see ep3, in the hopes that it will live up to the SW legacy, plus I need to see how it all raps up, even if it does turn out to be a dissappointment. But oridnairly if I see a movie or a sequel I don't like, thats it. I lose my interest in further sequels.

every critic in the world could saw ep3 was the worst piece of crap ever, and it would still be the #1 or #2 movie that year, so where is the risk? GL only needs to satisfy himself creatively. ANd againt hats not a knock, when it all comes down to it, its his series and he's the one who has to live with it.

I guess what I'm saying is, if GL had had his druthers back in ESB, or ROTJ, yoda would of probably been more mobile and may have even weilded a saber. He could mvoe fluidly like he does in AOTC, but that isn't the yoda we fell in love with, and personally I've found the PT yodas to be pretty boring. When your mentor character can barily move, and you can't prove he's ' da masta' then you better have some important stuff for him to say. ANd thats why yoda came alive, because he was more about magic and wonder. ESB yoda is more like E.T. then mister miyagi.

 

I didn't particularly enjoy the duel, and I think it would have been more fitting for the characterization of Mace than Yoda. For three films, we were given Yoda's characterization as more mystic than warrior, and Mace's character was built up (by GL in interviews and elsewhere) to be the physical powerhouse of the council (which I didn't really see in the Jango duel).

I liked the aura of mystery Yoda had before AOTC, which I think will diminish when the series is done (and *might* create some incredibly inconsistent characterization when the films are seen 1->6). But then again, I also didn't like Dooku using lightning.

 

yeah I personally wish the only time we saw lighting was when palpatine used it on Luke in RotJ

 

"I liked the aura of mystery Yoda had before AOTC, which I think will diminish when the series is done (and *might* create some incredibly inconsistent characterization when the films are seen 1->6). But then again, I also didn't like Dooku using lightning."

Oh screw Yoda's "aura of mystery."I'm so sick of hearing this.Yoda is a jedi, he fights like all the other jedi.There really isn't anything special about him when it comes to fighting(ok maybe his abilities are far superior than any jedi but he still uses the force and fights with a lightsaber).The only difference is he is wiser than all the other jedi.That's what I like about Yoda.

What's wrong with Dooku using lightning?He's a sith, sith use lightning.You might as well say you have a problem with Obi using force pull.

 

The yoda fight scene, the corruscant chase, and the droid factory sequence are all superfluous to the story. I have no idea what they add to the story; these action sequences are all there for the sake of having a CGI rich, action sequence. As a result they just seem tacked on for no reason. I tried thinking of a similar instance in ANH, but I couldn't think of any. What was the point of the battle with the ties on the Falcon? The falcon was on the run from the imperials. Vader sent out a squadron of ties to stop them from escaping; so they were forced to fight them. Why do Anakin and Obi-wan chase the assasin through Corruscant? To stop Zam from escaping and to find out who is trying to kill Padme. Why does Yoda fight Dooku? I've no idea. Why shouldn't it be Mace or Ki-adi-mundi? Why is the droid factory sequence there? Again; I've no idea.

 

You're actually right, specially in ANH and ESB, the action drives the story forward.

They meet up at the cantina to find a freighter transport --> They find a freighter transport --> They meet up at the Millenium Falcon --> They have to get out if their fast --> They're being chased by Star Destroyers --> They go into hyperspace --> and it goes on.

Always in motion the story,

There's not a single wasted sequence.

While, the action set-pieces in AOTC seem to be just that action set-pieces.

uhhh...I cringe everytime I see C-3po hanging off of his fingertips.

Just my $.02

 

Why is Luke seen travelling in his Land Speeder? To find R2, before something happens to him. Why is the Corruscant chase there? It just seems to be there for the sake of it. Lucas makes the story fit in with the chase sequence. The chase sequence should only be seen as a tool to aid the story.

Why is Yoda fighting? Probably because they had the technology to do it.

Lucas: "Lets do it then! I'll make the story fit in around the yoda fight."

 

I remember that quote by Lucas where he told that fan (in Seattle I think) who sat out in line for AOTC for months, that "you will definitely be amazed."

I bet George threw in that Droid Factory with fans like him in mind. The thing is, that Droid Facotry sequence could be thrown out because it's not part of the main backbone of the story. In fact, it's way off. I would not miss it for a second if it were dropped tomorrow. Much of AOTC, in my opinion, could be altered or thrown out and changed. I swear it sometimes seems like a work-in-progress. And people are wondering how I could possibly rank this film so low? Well look at it. There's so much wasted potential and there IS room for improvement. What one guy shrugs off as minor dialogue and acting deficiencies seems more like a big flaw to me. Dialogue and acting is what creates the overall tone of the film. If it's done right, you're enthralled throughout the entire film. If it's not quite right, you find it unconvincing and even distasteful.

And I could not think of (nor do I want to) alter ANH or ESB in any way, not because I regard them as the Holy Grail of movies that can do no wrong, but because it's just crafted so well, why mess with it. Yes, some effects have aged poorly, but I'm talking about sequences, not just small details like those white boxes around Tie Fighters. The central plot and characters of ANH and ESB are far superior to AOTC.

 

The droid factory sequence was shoved in at the last minute and it shows. Take a scene out of ANH and the film would suffer; the story would not make sense. Take certain scenes out of AOTC and what would you miss? Nothing. The droid factory being one of them.

The droid factory just seems like a desperate attempt to beef the film up in a bid to compete with other blockbusters like Spiderman. Thats what I don't like; I don't like the desperation thats creeping into the Star Wars films. Almost like Lucas sits there pulling his hair out shouting "What do I have to do to please you guys?!? Are you not entertained?!?"

 

and the fact is they are old movies, movies should be allowed to age, they don't need to be revitalized. Sure a nice clean print is always a plus, but what if we started going back and adding stuff to all these old films, they cease to be the same film, the sw SE is not the starwars trilogy, its different, its simalr in most respects but it is a different group of movies. WHy couldn't SW be allowed to rest?

"Oh screw Yoda's "aura of mystery."I'm so sick of hearing this.Yoda is a jedi, he fights like all the other jedi."

Why screw it? whats rwrong with something cool, we have hundreds of fighters in SW, can't there be a couple of characters who are different? No every character has to be darth maul. Until ep2 there was nothing to indicate that all jedi fight, and even if they do, there was no need to see Yoda fight at that time and place. "Yoda is a badass" I feel bad for anyone who doesn't see what's inherently bad about that statement. I guess it doesn't seem like cheapening of Yodas character if you don't think very highly of him to begin with which is the way it sounds.

There really isn't anything special about him when it comes to fighting..."

So why show him fighting? Is it not possibele that there are jedi, very wise and smart yet not physically adept who contribute to the order in other ways? Why do they all have to be expert swordsmen? It reduces the jedi as a whole to just htink of them as fighters.

"What's wrong with Dooku using lightning?He's a sith, sith use lightning.

No, the emperor used lightning. Maul didn't Vader didn't. Until the mystery trailer showed that dooku used lightning no one and any inclination that anyone besides palpatine could weild lightning. Giving it to dooku, makes palpatine look weak. If palpatine can only use lightning but dooku can use lightning and is a master swordsmen, then dooku is more powerful then palpatine. Its like a video game the final boss should be the most powerful, no the guy from level 2. But then again we'll probably see palpatine in a crazy saber fight in ep3, and I'm sure the crowds will love it.

 

The C-3po scene is not even in the original script.

It was added in post-production.

so it was tacked on.

I could do without C-3po in the geonosian arena sequences.

>There's so much wasted potential and there IS room for improvement

So true, and that's the sad part.

That's why I say the IMAX cut should be the official cut . You should check it out John Williams00

 

agreed, the movie could easily have been 30 minutes shorter and had twice as much content/ character development/ political intrigue/ romance/and even action.

 

See, that's why I'm wondering.

Before the prequels came out, Lucas gave interviews, that he didn't care if the prequels were commercially successful or not. [Time Magazine]

But now he seems to be cheapening the story by commercial products, which are pandering to the audience.

I don't care if Star Wars makes a dime or not if it delivers story wise.

As Yodaschum said, Their has to be a reason to everything, and then everything else has to fit accordingly. Not the other way around.

albeit, their is some brilliant story lurking around their somewhere in the political intrique. But, only if Lucas would develop the script a little more and elaborate it without making it look boring. Delivery comes into play here.

as for special effects, Even though we have the latest technology now I don't think it's being used as well. Either they clutter the screen or don't look realistic (geonosian fighter for example) .

In comparison the model-works on the Vader's Executor and the Medical frigate looks far more realistic. And more importantly, they have a soul and character.

As for the IMAX edition of AOTC, since it is official Lucasfilm it has a better chance of being released. How do you go about starting a petition?

 

"Why does Yoda fight Dooku?"

He sensed that obi and ani were in trouble.So he went to the hanger to rescue them.There's your reason.

 

George15 We're not saying that the story is bad, just that some of the reasons seem to have been made after the fact, after George decided to put in a sequence.

 

Yoda's credibility wasn't diminished.

I loved the scene in the cinema, i love it everytime i watch the DVD.
Its important to me because it shows that Yoda isn't just a mouthy so and so, he does rise to the occasion when he is threatened. Plus it shows how skilful he is. He is in every sense a master swordsman.

Obviously if people have problems with Yoda fighting then...ok...i guess thats your opinion. Nevermind.

Anyway I liked it and thats all that matters, besides I actually think those complaining now about him fighting would have been complaining had yoda not been fighting.

And by the way, about the Yoda Meditation scene, thats serves a very important plot point of the whole SW saga so it is relevant. Remember the whole disapearing Jedi act and the retaining your identity issue is resolved in Episode 3 so, Yoda hearing QGJ's voice is paramount to that next part of the plot point.