Did Yoda's lightsaber battle diminish his credibility?

"As to the Yoda fighting issue, there's more to it than you know. Lucas had planned it way back while writing ESB. He had it in mind then, but didn't as the technology wasn't up to it yet. So he kept it in the back of his head all this time and used it for AOTC."

You can believe whatever you want.

Evenif Gl did have that idea, its a stupid one. Yoda became his own character BECAUSE of the limitations of the puppet. So whatever GL had intended is irrelevant, what matters is the fianl product of how it turned out, why that character endeared itself to us. GL also wanted all the characters to be cat people in one draft, so should he now go back and manipulate all 6 movies to make them cat people jsut because at last the technology will let him?


As for the clean artifical look of the PT, and its not jsut the CGI, its that the set designers and prop people are too good to match the 70s/80s style. Its like the difference between a forest and a tree farm. They're both a bunch of trees, so whats the big difference?

 

No, I don't believe everything should be redrawn, to fit the original drafts either.

 

agreed, its not what you wrote, its what you shot. GL seems to resent the OT for all the comprimises he had to make, and now he's making SW they way he wants it, but if he had his way back then then we wouldn't have the OT we know and love, it would most likely not be nearly as good.

Instead of trying to make good prequels to the films that were actually made, he's trying to make prequels for the films he wanted to make.

 

Without the Yoda vs. Dooku duel, we'd never know why he is considered the most powerful and respected Jedi in the galaxy, since he's basically done nothing else in the PT apart from sit on the Council and mutter cryptic sentences.

 

I agree he's been pretty useless in the PT, but what about ESB? I was fully satisfied with that portrait of Yoda.

If yoda doesn't have much to do in the PT then he should be in it less.

 

Instead of trying to make good prequels to the films that were actually made, he's trying to make prequels for the films he wanted to make.

Too true.

Without the Yoda vs. Dooku duel, we'd never know why he is considered the most powerful and respected Jedi in the galaxy, since he's basically done nothing else in the PT apart from sit on the Council and mutter cryptic sentences.

What I saw in ESB was more than enough to convince me. Even though he didn't wield a lightsaber or deflect force lightning, there was such depth to his protrayal that it wouldn't be hard to imagine he could do what he did in AOTC. I didn't need to see it.

 

If yoda doesn't have much to do in the PT then he should be in it less

Yoda was in TPM for about 5 minutes, and was in AOTC for about 15-18 minutes. You think he should be in it less than that?

 

So many questions on this board lately, questioning the many questionable things about 'AotC'....


OF COURSE it diminished his credibility. It ruined the entire character. He's more machine generated now, than wise old Jedi.

 

Without the Yoda vs. Dooku duel, we'd never know why he is considered the most powerful and respected Jedi in the galaxy,

We never needed to be shone in the OT,we knew

That's how much authority his role commanded.

Now everything has to be shown. [rolls_eyes]

since he's basically done nothing else in the PT apart from sit on the Council and mutter cryptic sentences

That's because he's not given any good lines in the PT. He just sounds mysterious and talks backwards.

----------------------------
Ree Yees I'm glad everybody is questioning. Questioning leads to the doors of perception being opened.

Questioning leads to knowledge, knowledge leads to enlightenment, enlightenment leads to lack of ignorance. hmmmmmph

 

"Yoda was in TPM for about 5 minutes, and was in AOTC for about 15-18 minutes. You think he should be in it less than that?"

Yep, at this point I don't feel he really has anything to offer except sentimental value.

his importance to the PT as implied by the OT is thus:

1)he trained obi-wan
2)he did not train anakin
3)was aware of the emperors power and went into hiding as the jedi were wiped out.

1) we never got
2) we did
3)I can only presume we will\

everything else is unnessesary to me, so if he's going to be in it, he best have something to contribute.

"Hard to see, the darkside is" doesn't cut it for me. I would of rahter seen Bail Organa lead the clones into battle instead of Yoda. But thats me.

 

Rebel scumb I don't think it matters to me if he's onscreen 5 mins or 1 hr, as long as he has good lines.

 

Every student who's trained under a competent martial arts teacher wants to know how his instructor would have fought in his younger days. With Yoda, we get to see it.

 

Rebel scumb I don't think it matters to me if he's onscreen 5 mins or 1 hr, as long as he has good lines.

And so far he's had none. In "TPM" all he did was complain, and in "AOTC" he basically says the same stuff all the time, albeit in different ways ("The shroud of the dark side has fallen..", "Dangerous and disturbing..", etc etc).

He also has the worst line in the history of cinema, "Begun the clone war has".

 

I agree with you Ree Yees, you took the words right out of my mouth.

His character hasn't been developed one iota since ESB.

So, I say take him away! Lock him up!

 

.... and you can thank Mr. Lucas and Mr. Hale for the lack of decent (or even acceptable) dialouge.

 

"Every student who's trained under a competent martial arts teacher wants to know how his instructor would have fought in his younger days. With Yoda, we get to see it."

But SW was never about maritial arts until TPM.

SW neveruse to be about, cool fighting and whose the toughest, the conflicts were personal.

 

I think starwars has really changed in that aspect. Such a shame

 

SW isn't about martial arts now.....




.......it's about commercialism....

^_^

I kid, I kid.

 

SW neveruse to be about, cool fighting and whose the toughest, the conflicts were personal.

Well, thats not completly true but I see what your saying. Thats a problem I have with PT too. There aren't any personal connections any more. Kenobi and Jinn didn't even know Maul. Anakin and Kenobi didn't really have any direct connections to Dooku, either. In OT, in ANH it was the master against the apprentice, in ESB it was about getting revenge for the death of Luke's master, and in ROTJ it was to bring his father back from the dark side. I'm hoping this will be rectified in Ep. III

 

I've heard a lot of complaints about this. Sure, it was all fun to see and all, but was it really needed?

If you took out all the stuff in Star Wars that wasn't strictly needed then we'd have some very boring movies on our hands.

But did seeing Yoda whoop-a$$ diminish his credibility? Hardly, no more than seeing Mr. Miyagi spanking the bullys in The Karate Kid diminished his character. Frankly, I think it would be a waste if Yoda was all talk and no action. Seeing him easily deflect Dooku's attacks was the icing on one delicious cake of a movie!

For all the folks moping and groping about Lucas raping their childhoods by letting Yoda strut his stuff really need to get a life and stop taking these movies so damn seriously.

Does anybody else remember when Star Wars was about having fun? Sheesh!

 

"Without the Yoda vs. Dooku duel, we'd never know why he is considered the most powerful and respected Jedi in the galaxy."

We never needed to be shone in the OT,we knew


You're not thinking chronologically. When people are watching the films in order decades from now they won't want to wait until Episode V to find out why Yoda is a great Jedi Master. AOTC shows us why.

"He also has the worst line in the history of cinema, "Begun the clone war has"."

Really? Please elaborate (this should be good )

 

DarthHOmer do you think that if someone ever see the movies in the 1,2,3,4, 5,and 6 sequence will recognize/associate the PT Yoda with the one introduced in TESB ?
To me the TESB character was a wise but amusing figure; the one in the PT is formal, grave figure.
I for once can't picture the PT Yoda messing around with Luke's haversack like he did in TESB .
So my point is that the duel just make clear that the OT Yoda has nothing to do with the PT Yoda .

 

'My first post here ever'

Without a doubt, the duel changed the way we see Yoda forever. However, I think his modern characterization is necessary for two reasons:

1) Chronology, as others have mentioned, requires that Yoda be preceived as highly powerful in the prequel trilogy, for younger viewers.

2) Philosophical change due to current events: During ESB, Vietnam and the Cold War were fresh in our minds. The idea of wisdom that surpasses phsical force was riding high. But now we face terrorism as well as characters like Saddam who walk all over the peaceful UN. Thus a show of force is required to establish credibility.

Yoda was a peaceful teacher and bystander in ESB because it was Luke's fight. But in AOTC, it was Yoda's council, Yoda's republic, and Yoda's galaxy to defend. He was on top. Only through force could he prove to be worthy of the respect he later achieves through authority and illuminating wisdom of the force in a dark age.

 

I think the Yoda duel was a little bit over the top. I can understand Yoda's agressive style a little, if it's only connected to ESB through EpIII.

 

Are you honestly saying people saw ESB int he 80s and then said, "yoda is cool, I can't wait to see him fight"

As I haven't been elected "the spokesperson for all SW fans"...I can't make a overall statement about what every fans says. I will go on the record as that the subject of Yoda's fighting ability, in comparision to his mastery of the Force, (as seen in ESB) has promted the discussion of what kind of (if any) lightsaber skills would Yoda have.

There has also been many references to Yoda's abilities (including the idea of Force-lightning) in EU books and some famous artwork. I'm refering to the illustration from Star Wars Insider issue #26, painted by Tsuneo Sanda