ST Did You Like TLJ's Characterization of Luke Skywalker?

Having just gotten back from seeing TLJ, I would say I haven't had enough time yet to wrap my mind around all the craziness I just witnessed over that 2 1/2 hours!

As far as Luke, I will acknowledge that his overall mentality seemed a natural response to what he'd been thru. At first I had a problem with how he had tried to kill Kylo Ren, before he actually did anything. But then I remembered Mace Windu was in a way kind of going to do the same thing, when he had palpatine cornered-as a way of preventing him from being able to take over the galaxy. So although it's a stretch, I SUPPOSE I can accept it.

As far as how Luke died, I'm willing to accept whatever new force power is thrown at us with each new episode so the whole "projecting his image across the galaxy" thing is fine. But I just couldn't understand his motivations for things. I mean, why burn the tree and books and all? and why did Yoda agree? If I remember correctly, he never actually explained WHY the Jedi "needed to end," unless I'm just forgetting...

I guess I hoped for more from his character, and hoped he'd have done more (especially for Rey in terms of knowledge building and training) to ensure the Jedi continue, before just giving it all up...Here's hoping he appears as a force ghost in Episode IX...

 

I’m about to see it a third time. Johnson did a great job continuing George’s vision and Hamilton was great.

Exactly. But whereas Windu didn’t hesitate, Luke pulled back.

 

DP.

 

Yes a contrast, and it looks you don't seem to see it...that's probably the same mistake that RJ made....
It's also very well explained in this video, so please watch it, it will only take 15 minutes of your time to understand the underlying problem.

 

Yeah...just explain your issues with your own words. Don't just link to long videos of people you happen to agree with, especially when they're long.

 

Loved it.

 

Jesus that was depressing to listen to but it encapsulated exactly what after THREE viewings, I had difficulty with.. and I'm someone who got emotional at the end of Attack of the Clones btw.

I'm sending it to my brother who well ... disagreed with me

 

I disagree. Yes Luke pulled a lightsaber...but he immediately stopped himself...unlike with Vader when he attacked him in a fury...twice. Like I said, Luke has buttons things you can push that would set him off....and knowing the kind of destruction Vader caused and seeing it about to happen all over again triggered that response. It's why I mentioned the priest...you might think you're beyond something, that certain things will no longer affect you...yet it's ALWAYS a constant struggle to do the right thing.

 

By the way, one of the interesting tidbits revealed in the Art of TLJ book is that Luke in exile was an early idea developed when George Lucas was involved...

 

Luke felt like Mark Hamill.
That's kind of obvious, but really that's what he should be.

He rose to the occasion in the end. That's all I could ask for.
Except him not dying. I'd ask for that.

 

The problem is that Ben's actions, conflict and interactions with both Snoke and Luke are so underdeveloped that it hardly makes it seem like Luke is in the midst of a difficult decision. It makes him seem flippant even when he (supposedly) says what actually happened. That's why I'm saying it feels contrived.

That's also why Snoke's lack of development and subsequent death are even more egregious than Maul's. Unlike Maul, he actually had more relevance to the actual story. Like a lot of things in this movie, it's half-baked.

 

ONLY if he is able to show his transcendence in IX. I felt it was incomplete.

A simple line from Luke about how Ben turned and what SNoke was would have made things more complete.

 

I have explained the underlying issue multiple times on this board, I won't repeat myself.
And btw. It's not a a matter of people I agree with, it's a matter of the most logical explanation, the handling of this character in TLJ is fundamentally wrong with what was established in the OT.

 

For me, Rian demonstrated a profound understanding of both Luke Skywalker, and mythological heroes in general.

The idea that Luke would be perfect forever after ROTJ, an untouchable paragon of Jedi virtue, is both boring and a misunderstanding of mythology. When you reach the top of the mountain, you don't stay there forever. You can still fall - and you can still rise again. We all know how Campbell's monomyth inspired Lucas. That journey is a neverending circle, not a peak and a plateau.

The most heroic moment of Luke's life was switching his lightsaber off in the face of an evil tyrant. The least heroic was switching it on in the face of a misguided boy. That was a failure. And it's hard to see our heroes fail. But that is a powerful and necessary lesson. Luke Skywalker is not a god. He became older and he became attached to the things he loved, to the life he had built, to his own legend.

But when the time came, he once again proved himself greater than any Jedi before him, both in terms of his power (seriously, we have never seen anyone do anything close to what Luke did on Crait) but more importantly in terms of his sacrifice.

 

No option for me here. In the abstract, this is not what I would have chosen to do with Luke. But Rian and Mark sold it to me. I believed that this is what Luke experienced. I believed his anguish amd shame. I also believed that the old Luke was still in there and Rey and Yoda shook him out of his torpor. I ultimately loved it, despite some misgivings.

 

I am surprised by the sharp disagreement between fans and critics. I some issues with Luke's characterization and casino subplot, but overall I thought it was a pretty good movie.

This movie subverted expectations in an interesting way but ultimately delivered what every star wars fan was looking for, if not exactly int he way they thought. You don't always get what you want, but sometimes you get what you need, you know? Is Luke facing down the first order with a single laser sword any less compelling because he did so through the force? Wouldn't that be the case if his physical body was present or not?

I agree with one criticism, I also had an issue with Luke's murder attempt, even if he withdrew in his mind. I think a subtle touch would have been if in Luke's version/memory of the incident, no lightsabre was drawn. Fans would probably be screaming continuity error, but that might have made the murder attempt more something that occurred in Luke's mind but that never took hold, but that Kylo picked up on so intensely he saw Luke with a lightsabre as depicted in the movie.

 

The books survived. Check out the two times someone opens that drawer in the Falcon.

 

I think the ignited saber was a nice touch simply because it adds an extra dimension to him throwing away the saber at the start of the film. Also, as I mentioned above, it provides a neat inversion of his most heroic moment (throwing away his saber at the end of ROTJ).

I think it's so hard for us that to accept that Luke Skywalker could be tempted to kill his own nephew. To accept that even the legendary Luke Skywalker has to wrestle with the darkness, even briefly ("a fleeting shadow", as he put it).

But that's the whole nature of the darkside. To think that because you resist it once, you're pure forever, is how Jedi fall and it's how people grow corrupt in real life.

 

I mean it was a little out of character for him to turn on Kylo Ren, he felt more like a yoda type in this movie at the end though he became Luke again

 

Heroes rise and they fall again. This one of the most common themes of mythology. It does not diminish Luke's heroism that decades later, in a moment of weakness, he felt temptation (and resisted it, actually). It makes him human.

 

Again I disagree. I've watched Kylo Ren grow darker and darker for two movies now. I've seen him kill his own father and support an organization that kidnaps children and turns them into Killers. That builds and uses weapons of mass destruction to wipe out entire star systems. In that moment I see Luke reading Ben and hearing the screams of all those victims...and I can see him pulling his blade in that moment on impulse....a moment that passes...but a moment none the less.

 

I liked luke. I liked the fact that he failed and was like, 'I'm out'. It did indeed add depth to him. But then, the light sabre over shoulder. Meh. Him thinking about killing Ben. He probably would've thought about it. But then to actually go in to do it? Meeeehhh. I like the concept of force projection, but meeeeehhhh. Don;t think it added that much. Loved his interactions with R2 and Leia. I felt nothing when he disappeared. So all in all, liked him, but not all aspects of him.

 

I'm supposed to believe that Luke Skywalker, the guy who went on a suicide mission to the second deathstar to turn his father, Darth Vader, from the darkside only because he sensed good was still in him would sneak into his padawans room, his nephew from Leia and Han, at night to attempt to murder him in his sleep because he sensed the darkside in him? ....Seriously?

Then if they were going to kill off Luke at the end why not have him actually go and defend the rebels thus making him a real martyr? Why astral project him like a coward? We all saw the x-wing in the water, we know they can still fly after being submerged in water for extended periods of time.

The people making excuse for Luke about PTSD or effected by the darkside mirror or <insert excuse here>, THE MOVIE DID NOT EXPLAIN THIS. They just had Luke being a coward hiding and waiting to die on a planet with no explanation for his behavior or mindset. Thats horrible writing. Especially if we have to go to outside sources for the explanation, "Oh go read this or watch that". Thats garbage! In 1977 I didnt need to go to a magazine or book to get plot points or explain why Obi-wan let himself die. I was 9 years old and figured that out because the movie made it obvious!

#notmylukeskywalker

 

Double post. Is there some long running issue with the forums? They've been real slow to load, if they load at all.