Senate Diplomatic Firestorm

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Skywalker8921, Jun 24, 2013.

  1. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    See above posts? Hell, even if you plain lose your phone you usually end up with a different phone number and also pay an early termination fee-the phone company would have a record of that. You're endlessly what-iffing in an attempt to make a rather absurd theory work.
  2. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    The American justice system isn't built on proving our innocence, but rather our accuser's inability to prove our guilt. One can certainly make a strong argument that in the post-9/11 era, those values have been compromised and people accused of certain types of offenses don't get all of the appropriate opportunities to defend themselves. However, that's not an issue that has any relationship to data collection per se. I think you're making your argument in the wrong place.

    Regarding PII, why do you think it's handled any better or worse by the government than it is by the many corporations with their fingers in that pie? Again, the U.S. government has certainly demonstrated that it ought to do a better job of protecting PII, but governments are way, way more entitled and qualified to possess it than any other entity.
    Last edited by Dark Lady Mara, Jul 4, 2013
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  3. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    Except the data collection isn't being done strictly by government employee at government agency, but private employee from private corporation contracted by the government to collect data.
    Last edited by ShaneP, Jul 4, 2013
  4. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Anna Chapman (the Russian spy/supermodel) proposes marriage to Edward Snowden :p

    But, more seriously, France spies on its own citizens in the same way the US does:

    Is anyone really shocked?

    Does anyone still think the UK, Russia, and China don't do this too?
  5. GenAntilles Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2007
    star 4
    Guy goes from Hawaii with hot girlfriend, to Hong Kong, to Moscow where a hot Russian spy proposes to him, all the while being hunted by the US government. The guy is living his own Jason Bourne fanfic.
  6. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    @Summer Dreamer I doubt there's any functioning Western democracy that doesn't have a program like this. England is probably the deepest in as their privacy laws, and in particular how intelligence agencies and the military can be used in the the UK, are quite different from ours.
    Summer Dreamer likes this.
  7. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    The Feds should order a search all the planes leaving Moscow to LA. The fellow would be a fool not to arrange a contract with Hollywood at this point.
    Last edited by Barriss_Coffee, Jul 4, 2013
  8. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
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    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    The issue really isn't and hasn't really ever been that they do it (many people have always assumed they do) or being shocked by the revelations, it's whether they should be doing it in the first place.
    Everyone knows that governments spy, it's part of what they do. But who they spy on is the issue here and whether it is legal to do what they have been doing (or if it should be legal).


    The outcry various nations have about the US spying on them is just because they have to act like they are mad. Everyone knows that nations spy on each other, it's important for national security to make sure they aren't planning something bad. It's especially important against paper allies like China & Russia who we know are only friends when it suits them.
    Last edited by SithLordDarthRichie, Jul 4, 2013
  9. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Please Ritchie, do you think the Cousins don't spy on you, and you the Cousins? Paper allies or otherwise, nation-states don't have the luxury of trust.
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  10. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
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    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    Of course they don't, which is why they are spying on each other. And they all know they are doing it to each other, the act of surprise and outrage is only to keep people happy because if they said "It's ok, we do it to you too" there would be huge outrage.
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  11. VadersLaMent Chosen One

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  12. Juliet316 SFTC Winner

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  13. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Fourth Amendment rallies

    Good to see the government spying is inspiring people to finally wake up and realize how much they're being taken advantage of by the government. I doubt these will amount to much and the NSA will just become more secretive thanks to this leak. The NSA also seems to think it's in control of the government:

    Oh thank you o' lord for granting us the right to protest. M'lord is so gracious. :rolleyes: The only downside to this whole thing is that they looks like teabagger and those occupy wall street types have finally come together. Which might be good as we need people angry at this stuff and demand accountability, because I don't think there's enough of that going around. The FBI chief lied to congress about this program and isn't going to be prosecuted whereas they went after a baseball player for lying about taking steroids.

    [IMG]

    This sign is probably the best summation of why I'm worried about this program.
    Last edited by Fire_Ice_Death, Jul 5, 2013
  14. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    lol. Yeah, "does not object". Oh, thank you Master NSA for being so kind and benevolent. Arrogant.
  15. VadersLaMent Chosen One

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    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
  16. mandragora Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    So now it turns out that:
    "NSA 'In Bed Together with the Germans'"
    http://www.spiegel.de/international...of-aiding-nsa-in-spying-efforts-a-909847.html

    This is getting more and more uncomfortable for our dear chancellor. If it turns out she and the inner affairs minister lied to the people the past couple of weeks, they've got some things to explain. If it turns out they didn't lie but were clueless they've got other things to explain. In the latter case, the BND will be in trouble as well, as then they quite possibly lied to the parliament AND the federal government, and surely the federal prosecutors, who are already waiting, will be after them. All of that in the middle of the election campaign [face_tee_hee]

    So far no news from her on this latest development.
    Last edited by mandragora, Jul 7, 2013
  17. Ender Sai Chosen One

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    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    I'm rolling my eyes furiously at some posts on this page...
  18. dp4m Chosen One

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  19. Kyle Katarn Chosen One

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    Jul 10, 1998
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  20. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

    Manager
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    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    Her Majesty does not take "selfies."


    She has people for that.
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  21. VadersLaMent Chosen One

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  22. I Are The Internets Chosen One

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    Nov 20, 2012
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    Dude I've rolled my eyes so much that they're stuck at the back of my head. I'm typing based on feel now.
  23. SuperWatto Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2000
    star 5
    While you're eye-rolling, don't forget to provide actual input of your own. Mkay? Thanks.

    [IMG]
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  24. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Watto I've added a bunch of well informed commentary to this debate. What can I say besides "what a load of wank" to comments about liberty being stolen and people no longer recognising what liberty is? Indulging the unfettered ignorance and unjustified arrogance of people who think the NSA et al give a damn about their actual personal data is beneath me, and most of the opposition is grounded in bad dialogue from a cheesy TV show.

    better?
  25. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    No personal attacks. - SuperWatto
    Last edited by SuperWatto, Jul 9, 2013