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Senate Diplomatic Firestorm

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Skywalker8921, Jun 24, 2013.

  1. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    See above posts? Hell, even if you plain lose your phone you usually end up with a different phone number and also pay an early termination fee-the phone company would have a record of that. You're endlessly what-iffing in an attempt to make a rather absurd theory work.
     
  2. Dark Lady Mara

    Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 1999
    The American justice system isn't built on proving our innocence, but rather our accuser's inability to prove our guilt. One can certainly make a strong argument that in the post-9/11 era, those values have been compromised and people accused of certain types of offenses don't get all of the appropriate opportunities to defend themselves. However, that's not an issue that has any relationship to data collection per se. I think you're making your argument in the wrong place.

    Regarding PII, why do you think it's handled any better or worse by the government than it is by the many corporations with their fingers in that pie? Again, the U.S. government has certainly demonstrated that it ought to do a better job of protecting PII, but governments are way, way more entitled and qualified to possess it than any other entity.
     
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  3. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    Except the data collection isn't being done strictly by government employee at government agency, but private employee from private corporation contracted by the government to collect data.
     
  4. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Anna Chapman (the Russian spy/supermodel) proposes marriage to Edward Snowden :p

    But, more seriously, France spies on its own citizens in the same way the US does:

    Is anyone really shocked?

    Does anyone still think the UK, Russia, and China don't do this too?
     
  5. GenAntilles

    GenAntilles Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Guy goes from Hawaii with hot girlfriend, to Hong Kong, to Moscow where a hot Russian spy proposes to him, all the while being hunted by the US government. The guy is living his own Jason Bourne fanfic.
     
  6. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    Summer Dreamer I doubt there's any functioning Western democracy that doesn't have a program like this. England is probably the deepest in as their privacy laws, and in particular how intelligence agencies and the military can be used in the the UK, are quite different from ours.
     
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  7. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    The Feds should order a search all the planes leaving Moscow to LA. The fellow would be a fool not to arrange a contract with Hollywood at this point.
     
  8. SithLordDarthRichie

    SithLordDarthRichie CR Emeritus: London star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2003
    The issue really isn't and hasn't really ever been that they do it (many people have always assumed they do) or being shocked by the revelations, it's whether they should be doing it in the first place.
    Everyone knows that governments spy, it's part of what they do. But who they spy on is the issue here and whether it is legal to do what they have been doing (or if it should be legal).


    The outcry various nations have about the US spying on them is just because they have to act like they are mad. Everyone knows that nations spy on each other, it's important for national security to make sure they aren't planning something bad. It's especially important against paper allies like China & Russia who we know are only friends when it suits them.
     
  9. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Please Ritchie, do you think the Cousins don't spy on you, and you the Cousins? Paper allies or otherwise, nation-states don't have the luxury of trust.
     
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  10. SithLordDarthRichie

    SithLordDarthRichie CR Emeritus: London star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2003
    Of course they don't, which is why they are spying on each other. And they all know they are doing it to each other, the act of surprise and outrage is only to keep people happy because if they said "It's ok, we do it to you too" there would be huge outrage.
     
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  11. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent 2017 Celebrity Deathpool Winner star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
  12. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

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    Apr 27, 2005
    Summer Dreamer likes this.
  13. Fire_Ice_Death

    Fire_Ice_Death Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2001
    [link=http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...-inspire-fourth-amendment-rallies?lite]Fourth Amendment rallies[/link]

    Good to see the government spying is inspiring people to finally wake up and realize how much they're being taken advantage of by the government. I doubt these will amount to much and the NSA will just become more secretive thanks to this leak. The NSA also seems to think it's in control of the government:

    Oh thank you o' lord for granting us the right to protest. M'lord is so gracious. :rolleyes: The only downside to this whole thing is that they looks like [link=http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/40-best-signs-from-the-restore-the-fourth-rallies]teabagger and those occupy wall street[/link] types have finally come together. Which might be good as we need people angry at this stuff and demand accountability, because I don't think there's enough of that going around. The FBI chief lied to congress about this program and isn't going to be prosecuted whereas they went after a baseball player for lying about taking steroids.

    [​IMG]

    This sign is probably the best summation of why I'm worried about this program.
     
  14. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    lol. Yeah, "does not object". Oh, thank you Master NSA for being so kind and benevolent. Arrogant.
     
  15. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent 2017 Celebrity Deathpool Winner star 10

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    Apr 3, 2002
  16. mandragora

    mandragora Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 28, 2005
    So now it turns out that:
    "NSA 'In Bed Together with the Germans'"
    http://www.spiegel.de/international...of-aiding-nsa-in-spying-efforts-a-909847.html

    This is getting more and more uncomfortable for our dear chancellor. If it turns out she and the inner affairs minister lied to the people the past couple of weeks, they've got some things to explain. If it turns out they didn't lie but were clueless they've got other things to explain. In the latter case, the BND will be in trouble as well, as then they quite possibly lied to the parliament AND the federal government, and surely the federal prosecutors, who are already waiting, will be after them. All of that in the middle of the election campaign [face_tee_hee]

    So far no news from her on this latest development.
     
  17. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    I'm rolling my eyes furiously at some posts on this page...
     
  18. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
  19. Kyle Katarn

    Kyle Katarn Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 10, 1998
    What? The nation that pioneered putting CCTV cameras in every nook and cranny is so wired that even the Queen can't take a selfie without somebody else seeing it soon thereafter? Surely you jest.
     
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  20. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Her Majesty does not take "selfies."


    She has people for that.
     
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  21. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent 2017 Celebrity Deathpool Winner star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
  22. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Dude I've rolled my eyes so much that they're stuck at the back of my head. I'm typing based on feel now.
     
  23. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2000
    While you're eye-rolling, don't forget to provide actual input of your own. Mkay? Thanks.

    [​IMG]
     
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  24. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Watto I've added a bunch of well informed commentary to this debate. What can I say besides "what a load of ****" to comments about liberty being stolen and people no longer recognising what liberty is? Indulging the unfettered ignorance and unjustified arrogance of people who think the NSA et al give a damn about their actual personal data is beneath me, and most of the opposition is grounded in bad dialogue from a cheesy TV show.

    better?
     
  25. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    No personal attacks. - SuperWatto