Senate Diplomatic Firestorm

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Skywalker8921, Jun 24, 2013.

  1. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    I agree on all those things, but what I would say is that if all those things above have happened and put us "on the path" to a mild form of authoritarianism, then there's likely more we don't know that would put us right there in the thick of it.

    I'm not even suggesting it's wrong. I just think it's a naturally occurring thing that seems to afflict a free society that accepts a tradeoff of greater security at the expense of individual freedom.

    Ender was right in his earlier post. We do take most of this stuff for granted.

    But no one here has suggested abolishing the NSA, CIA, FBI, etc etc. In fact, all I've read here and even throughout the media is outrage. No one is seriously suggesting stopping clandestine programs in their entirety.

    I don't think we should even stop these recently revealed programs. I think perhaps it's enough to know.
    Last edited by ShaneP, Jul 18, 2013
  2. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    Graham has Tea Party allies?
  3. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    FBI and NSA asking for SSL keys. Good to know they're not interested in anyone's personal data that they want the keys to personal data. And this is why I'm against the NSA snooping, because they demand greater and greater access.
    VadersLaMent likes this.
  4. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
  5. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Speaking as an Army NCO here, I really, really have to question his leadership and what they were doing while a private was slurping data out of his machine seemingly daily and doing things like bringing CDs to "listen to music" on his classified work computer. (The military has two kinds of computer: ones that can access classified information, and ones that can't-this is achieved by a specialized server and keys, IIRC). I haven't seen any of the privates in the various units I've been in bring CDs to work since, well, ever, and the disk drives on our work computers don't work anyhow due to security concerns-I'd assume the same for them. It just makes me wonder how they weren't supervising what this very low-ranking soldier was doing.

    It's just incredibly professionally sloppy.
    Summer Dreamer likes this.
  6. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    So...

    Xkeyscore. Everything you do is collected. Email content, searches, web sites you vist, not just metadata. This is what Snowden said he could do and the NSA said it was a lie.
    Arawn_Fenn likes this.
  7. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Apparently 56% of Americans approve of the dragnet existing:

    Techcrunch article

    [IMG]

    @SuperWatto and I have been discussing the psychological implications of this. My first thought was that 9/11 profoundly altered the American psyche, and SuperWatto had a really good point about the internet in general, too:

    -Per Slate, 20% of Americans directly know somebody who was wounded or killed on 9/11. That's approximately 60 million people, who probably aren't keeping that secret or anything-using myself as an example, I know one person who had a friend who died on 9/11, and my wife knows one, too. Of course, two people isn't a trend, but to put 20% of the country in perspective:

    -There are more Americans who know somebody who died on 9/11 than Americans who identify with the tea party:
    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...013/just_8_now_say_they_are_tea_party_members

    -There are more Americans who knew somebody who died on 9/11 than Americans who make more than 100,000 dollars a year:
    http://income-wages-earning-power.k...-more-than-a-hundred-thousand-dollars-a-year/

    There are more Americans who knew somebody who died on 9/11 than Americans who approve of Congress:
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/1600/congress-public.aspx

    9/11 as an affector on the national psyche, I think, cannot be ignored, especially in regard to projects like PRISM. 60 million people is going to have a massive ripple effect, IMO; compare the public reaction to PRISM compared to the reaction from the 1970s about the CIA's coups in other countries...to use analogous technology, I don't think 1970s America would have approved of the NSA tapping everyone's phones.

    Superwatto had a point that didn't occur to me: The Internet has really changed how people regard privacy; I'll use my Facebook and Google Plus account information as examples:

    From Facebook (assuming I've friended you back) you can find out my:

    phone number, name, city I live in, who I'm married to, who is part of my family, where I went to school, and when I graduated.

    From Google Plus (assuming you're in my circles, which is about 4700 people) you can find out:

    Where I've lived, where I currently live, my birthdate, and my occupation.

    This is pretty typical for social networking, I think; and even 13 years ago it wasn't information you'd publically share. People's definition of privacy has changed a lot-Watto pointed out that if the boards were started today, probably nobody'd have nicknames, because it's not the norm for a social site anymore.
  8. Juliet316 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
    Just realized something.... by getting asylum from Russia, Snowden is now in a country that openly spies on it's citizens, and does so to even more extremes than the US (that we know of).

    So... wouldn't Russia granting Snowden asylum be kind of sort of poetic justice in a sense, given he exposed the US's spying tactics, ran and ended up possibly in an even worse situation than he was in the US?
    DarthBoba likes this.
  9. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Anyone who believed the "metadata" B.S. needs to wear a T-shirt reading "GULLIBLE" with an arrow pointing up.
    VadersLaMent likes this.