Disable the ignore function

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Ender Sai, Jun 2, 2014.

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  1. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 9
    I'm happy to "just get moderating" if someone in one of my assigned forums is making such a statement in the context of "I have a right to be an ass and just ignore me if you don't like it" (which is a different context than "no one is forcing you to read/respond to my posts"). But the issue is still the same--determining whether the function is more trouble than it is worth.

    I have been of the position that it is more beneficial than harmful but the more issues keep coming up, the more I lean towards changing my mind.
  2. FatBurt Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 6
    Tim, that doesn't really help. That effectively says that any forum that isn't forum based is an irrelevance and when have you ever come across a forum with a base topic that doesn't allow "off topic" conversation?


    However, avoiding a contentious thread is an option that some may take.


    Sith- I was equating the real life option to the boards right now. On the boards you can scroll past i.e. actively ignore the statement/problem/challenge or put it on ignore and never have your own perspectives challenged. I, personally don't think ignore is a good way to go. I'll not go as so far as to call it "weak" as others may have done but to me it feels like a complete disassociation to anything that challenges your own personal beliefs and as such the ignore function means that you can go to a "safe" place.

    The world isn't "safe". IMO to develop it is best to face those who challenge and test you as it helps develop you as in individual. IF you feel you are being bullied then you have 100% of my support in getting help and having that bully dealt with BUT a differing of opinion is not bullying, a forceful point of disagreement is not bullying. It may be badly articulated but it does not warrant retreating to a safe place.
    Granted these forums are meant to be fun, but they should always challenge too. A recent post I did on facebook would have been edited and shut down here ASAP but when I did it I was rightly called out as a result of the misguided "haha that will be funny" thought I had. This thought ignored my audience and the context of the post, it went for the cheap "laugh". The posters here make me rethink things and have done for year, there are many conservatives who I would have put on ignore when I was younger just to avoid dealing with their "poisonous bile". If these had been on ignore I would have missed out on a huge broadening of my still weak understanding of the world. If they had been on ignore I would have missed out on a learning curve that has actually helped.

    Being opposed to differing views even when delivered in a difficult and challenging style is beneficial overall.

    Bullying needs to be closed down asap. As is frequently stated here, you debate the post and the idea not the poster.

    We don't all align to this as well as we could do but we should all be open to be challenged.


    The minute someone is put on ignore the chance for this type of discussion is lost.

    You can't just ignore someone when in the real world and it's something that we never had an issue with back in "the good old days" and whilst I don't want to sound like and old fossil due to progress etc... I don't see why you should be able to just ignore someone here. We're meant to be a community. This to me means you take to bad with the good and overtime you learn how to deal with each other better. Using ignore just creates walls, these walls prevent discourse and prevent that all so important common ground from being found.



    Ignoring a problem is never a good solution.
  3. V-2 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    The forum should not always be challenging. Argument from nostalgia is not convincing, either. In the good old days boorish loudmouthery was more acceptable, bullies were more tolerated, minority opinion less respected, etc.

    People can and do ignore you in real life. Not everyone values your opinion, or wants to hear it. If there's a problem individual in real life who frequents a certain establishment, or works in a certain area, the people who can't stand him/her just limit their interaction as much as possible. Avoid that pub/cafe/club, walk the long way round work to avoid that room or cubicle, etc. Technology just makes it easier to avoid misery in an place we come to relax online (which is actually an honest to goodness part of real life too).

    But if the person is being an ass, that's what you're there to moderate. The minute details of rhetoric are secondary to the concern of the person being an ass.

    I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that 'welcome to my ignore list' style comments are a no-no. If you decide 'Ignore me if you like' style comments are a no-no too, fine. But none of this is actually putting the innocent ignore function under a bad light IMO. It's not an abuse of the actual function that you're concerned with here, is it?
    Last edited by V-2, Mar 19, 2016
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  4. Sith-I-5 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2002
    star 6
    But bullying, according to those victims who have spoken up on this issue, does exist on the Boards.

    And Mods have admitted that if the TOS is not violated, they can do nothing about the bullying.

    The Ignore function has been cited as a solution to those who fall between the gaps of what the moderators can deal with.
    Shira A'dola, V-2 and Ewok Poet like this.
  5. harpua Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 9
    Yesterday, there was a user who was being rude and disrespectful, and when he was called on it by several people, his response was, "If you don't like it, you can always put me on ignore." This is an abuse of the feature. Like I said several pages ago, this forum has been around since 1998 with no ignore feature, and everybody survived it. I think it's an unnecessary feature... we have moderators to deal with problem users.
    Darth Guy and jcgoble3 like this.
  6. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 9
    I think @V-2 has a point in that what happened yesterday is a problem with the abuse of the feature as opposed to the feature itself being used as intended. And I'm certainly fine with adding to the list of ignore-feature-related behaviors that are considered abuse (again, speaking only for myself).

    I just keep wondering how long that list is going to get.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Mar 20, 2016
  7. jcgoble3 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2010
    star 5
    That's not an excuse for keeping around a (mis)feature that causes all kinds of other problems. That's a reason to update the TOS to close the loophole that permits those forms of bullying. No one should be able to bully someone else without violating the TOS. Stick and anti-bullying clause in the TOS, get rid of this misfeature, and we should be good.
  8. Todd the Jedi Mod and Soliloquist of SWTV

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Oct 16, 2008
    star 6
    Yeah, I think there's a very important distinction between abuse of the ignore feature and the ignore feature being inherently abusive. As per example given in this thread, it's used responsibly all the time, which means no one even knows it's being used. However, when it's abused it's often very clear to people involved in a discussion that someone is abusing it.

    To me, it's no different than any other forms of abuse that occur on the site. There's been conflict and abuse going back to 1998 as well- the ignore feature is just a newer outlet of abuse for people who would cause trouble whether the feature was there or not. Getting rid of the feature really does nothing to combat that inherent problem. We'll always have people skirting the rules or outright creating a hostile environment, that's just the nature of an international online forum- but get rid of ignore and you get rid of a unique way of coping with abuse, whether that abuse be outright rule-breaking or the more subtle, non-actionable abuse that we mods can't do a whole ton about.

    We try to make this place happy and fun for everyone- but there's only so much we can do to keep the peace. And for what it's worth, from my point of view at least, ignore helps avoid a lot of unnecessary conflict a lot more than it helps foster disruptions, and even those can diminish if we set some more concrete guidelines on how and how not to use ignore.
    Last edited by Todd the Jedi, Mar 20, 2016
  9. harpua Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 9
    That's what mods are for, though.
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  10. Sith-I-5 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2002
    star 6
    Once more. For the cheap seats. That is not what, our mods at least, are for.

    Ours exist to enforce the TOS.
    Random Comments likes this.
  11. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 10
    Then they're failures as mods, Sith. Simple as that.

    When I was in MS, any promotion required an assessment by the existing Mods about how appropriate the candidates could be for the role and in part that was based on how well integrated to their forum they are. Were they active participants? Did others respect their opinion? etc.

    Mods are indirectly responsible for the prevalence of bullying behaviour in their forum as they are responsible for the overall tone for the forum.

    If they do not agree, or disengage from this, an argument about their effectiveness needs to be made.
    jcgoble3 likes this.
  12. V-2 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    I don't even see it as an abuse of the feature, actually. Discussion of the feature, even in a confrontational context, is not utilising the feature at all. I might be being a bit pedantic, but when the person being an ass is the problem, the words they use to be an ass can be incidental. Someone could launch a barrage of insults that didn't attack the person or use banned words and still expect to be moderated or banned for being an ass.

    If someone genuinely abuses the feature itself for malicious purposes, permaban them because the only ways I can think of doing that are exceptionally mean and dishonest, and potentially very damaging. But just whining about it or suggesting it as an alternative to either party GTFOing doesn't seem worthy of being an offence in its own right, imho. Banning all discussion seems like an odd compromise and gives it an enigmatic allure, specifying ways it can and can't be discussed seems to grant it special powers too. It's just a word in a box.

    Anyway, I'm happy to agree that saying the words 'ignore me' can be immoderate. I'm not sure why you'd need a list of phrases to identify a bad confrontation, however....
    Random Comments likes this.
  13. Ramza Administrator Emeritus

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2008
    star 7
    Regarding the whole bullying and moderation thing, I'll say that it can be tough to discern a line between what constitutes "friendly ribbing" and what constitutes actual bullying. When we notice a problem it tends to get airtime amongst the staff; but when it's, say, submitted in report form it's isolated, viewable by all MS with no context, and frequently can look a bit benign. If you feel the need to use ignore for that kind of situation, do so, but it wouldn't hurt to contact a relevant staff member and at least explain why you feel that user's actions are detrimental to your experience on the boards. The staff member might reach a different conclusion than you did, but I think regardless of whether or not the feature stays (And I've never leaned particularly hard one way or the other on that question), the actual contact can't really hurt.

    As regards hostile discussion of the ignore feature, I've never considered it especially polite but my position on whether or not it needs to be more specifically regulated remains in flux.

    I realize that all looks kind of noncommittal but, uh, I've never actually even been able to use the ignore feature as I was pre-move staff. :p I'm taking user opinions into consideration to try and cover that deficiency.
    Last edited by Ramza, Mar 20, 2016
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  14. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 10
    Or you could just talk to the alleged bully and highlight where the grievance comes from and ask them to be mindful of their behaviour. If their response is an indignant "OH. OH OF COURSE. PICK ON ME. OH. OH. I'M THE BULLY? OH SO RICH" - you know, the kind of over the top faux indignation that makes you want to punch someone until your hand is broken? Yeah that. Anyway if their response is this, then you basically take it as given that they've been warned and if they persist it's the natural consequence of you giving them precisely enough rope to fashion a noose and tie it to a rafter.

    If, however, they weren't aware how they came across they express gratitude at your intervention and moderate their behaviour. Either way, it's a whole lot more effective than the patented TwilekJedi method of yawning before listlessly plucking at your fiddle while a forum burns.
  15. A Chorus of Disapproval A Porg of Disapproval

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 8
    This line is high art. I want this stitched into a quilt to keep me warm at night.
  16. Dantana Skywalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2002
    star 5
    I like the ignore function. It's given me the opportunity to avoid individuals whom I personally find extremely aggravating and would rather not interact with, even if their behavior is with the TOS. I'm here for escapism and enjoyment. I'm not here for someone who's decided they have a weird beef with me to go around and quote me and argue with me constantly just because they feel like it. I had someone do that a few weeks ago, quoting something I said out of context to several threads I was not involved with just to stir up anger because I had an opinion they didn't like. Now that I have them on ignore, they don't see my opinions and I don't have to deal with them, and the mods don't have to deal with a stupid conflict between users because one of them has a Killik up their butt.
  17. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    You're not talking about me are you?
  18. Boba Nekhbet Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2014
    star 4
    I think you misunderstood the ignore function.
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  19. Dantana Skywalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2002
    star 5
    Or they do but they can't interact with me. Whatever. Mod told me to do it, so I did. I don't care.
  20. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    I didn't intend to stir up anger - but simply to get the issue (Controversial portrayals in Ylesia) - discussed - my apologies for offending.
  21. AbsolX Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2015
    star 2
    One possible problem that could come up with the ignore function is with roleplaying. Say you had gotten in an argument with another roleplayer on some other thread. You ignore them. However it would make roleplaying really hard because people who be writing responses to what you saw as non-existent posts.
    jcgoble3 likes this.
  22. jcgoble3 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2010
    star 5
    Ignoring someone affects only the ignorer. It has no effect on the ignoree, who can still see your posts, quote you, etc. exactly the way they did before.
  23. V-2 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    So ****ing what?
  24. Luigi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2006
    star 4
    What if the DM wants to separate the party, and so has each group ignore the other group?
  25. TheChosenSolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 2011
    star 4
    That's why there's an option to "Show Ignored Content".
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