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Disappointed that the PT did not explain what a Sith is.

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by EmeraldBlade, Feb 12, 2011.

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  1. EmeraldBlade

    EmeraldBlade Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Apr 19, 2008
    From the start it was presumed that we already knew.

    Now, at the time, I did not know anything of the EU and I was left confused. Yes, I knew Palpatine was the Sith Lord but befuddled by his motives. Power? OK. But how is this linked directly to the Sith?

    I would have loved far more philosophical talk in the movies.

    Your thoughts?
     
  2. block

    block Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2004
    As someone that ignores the EU, I understand what you're saying. I think part of what makes them interesting though is that we know so little about them. Basically, you know that they hate the Jedi, they're greedy, and they've been waiting for a long time to get revenge. Oh, and there's only ever two of them.

    I think it might have been more interesting to hear about exactly how Palpatine became a Sith, but as far as what they are and where they came from, I think it's better left to the imagination. Makes it more ominous and threatening. That's also what made Darth Vader such a great villian back when the movies first came out.
     
  3. FalorWindrider

    FalorWindrider Jedi Knight star 4

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    Jun 7, 2010
    Yeah, this is disappointing. Without any elaboration on their motivations, their philosophy, these characters boil down to:

    a.) Black Cape
    b.) Yellow Eyes
    c.) Evil laugh, ominous breathing, deep voice

    In short, it makes them card-carrying villains and wholly one-dimensional. Palpatine was a much deeper character before his face was scarred, and I'm left wishing it didn't happen so suddenly, because he goes from being slippery, deceitful, and shifty to a careless exaggeration of his character in ROTJ.
     
  4. EmeraldBlade

    EmeraldBlade Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Apr 19, 2008
    Now, the ROTS Novel nailed it.

    My fav scene in the PT is Ian and Hayden in the Opera.
     
  5. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    The opera scene does explain some things, and there are other tidbits throughout the movies.
     
  6. EmeraldBlade

    EmeraldBlade Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Apr 19, 2008
    I think like Ian says, it is cool that Palpatine himself is evil incarnate.

    That in itself I am cool with.
     
  7. EmeraldBlade

    EmeraldBlade Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2008

    Just a shame there was not more.

    It probably encourages me more mind you, in terms of my lust for the EU.

    Maybe George knew fans would react exactly this way.
     
  8. PiettsHat

    PiettsHat Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 1, 2011
    I actually thought the films did a decent job of portraying the Jedi versus Sith philosophy, at least in regards to their approach to the Force. The Jedi clearly believe in letting the Force guide their actions while the Sith use the Force as a tool to increase their own power. It actually fits nicely into the concept of Anakin's creation where the Jedi believe that he was born of the will of the Force itself while Palpatine says that Plagueis manipulated the midichlorians to create life. Admittedly, though, it would have been nice to get a more concise description. One of my favorite scenes from ANH is when Ben Kenobi describes the Jedi and their role as guardians of the galaxy to Luke.
     
  9. Darth_Nub

    Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Apr 26, 2009
    The TPM novel had a fair bit of explanation, & GL outlined the backstory about Darth Bane & the Rule Of Two in a number of interviews around the release of TPM.

    There's only so much exposition you can fit into a movie, it's not unlike a number of things from the OT that weren't in the films, but were elaborated upon in the novelisations & interviews - the duel between Vader & Obi-Wan, Han & Chewie's background, the age of the droids, how the Republic became the Empire and so on.

    For a casual viewer of the films, it's enough that the Sith are the bad guys, anyone who wants more can pursue the other sources.
     
  10. FalorWindrider

    FalorWindrider Jedi Knight star 4

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    Jun 7, 2010
    But that's essentially an endorsement of the view that viewers are morons, that one need only use very old and cliched villain tropes to convey the fact that they are in fact, villains. The problem with these films is that the exposition was in the wrong place. They spent too much time on things like the Podrace and Otoh Gunga and not enough time on this. I mean, the Sith are at the crux of the story, yet they are mentioned very rarely and nothing besides the fact that they hate Jedi is ever elaborated upon.
     
  11. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 23, 2000
    What is there to know about the Sith?

    They're basically evil versions of the Jedi who use the force and carry lightsabers like the Jedi do. The difference is, the Sith would use both tools to kill and destroy anything that stands in their way, they don't care about anyone but themselves, and they desire absolute power and control over the universe. The Sith hate the Jedi not just because they stand in the way of them becoming masters of the universe, but they resent them for not sharing their point of view.
     
  12. Darth_Nub

    Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Apr 26, 2009
    It was elaborated upon quite a bit in ROTS in the opera scene. In TPM they were meant to be something of a mystery anyway - the 'phantom menace' of the title, obviously.

    Sure, it would have been nice to have had more of the dark background of these shadowy figures than boring, overlong underwater sequences, or a gigantic chunk of the film centred around a race, but sadly, I think it was a case of there not actually having been a well thought out backstory beyond what was revealed anyway.

    As far as endorsing the notion that viewers are morons, that's simply not true, it's more of a reflection of the studio-type thinking that a film has to try to appeal to as broad an audience as possible, sacrificing certain aspects so as not to alienate particular demographics, in this case, those who don't want too much 'nerdy' stuff, or little kids who mightn't be able to follow it.

    Of course, the LOTR films didn't seem to have a problem with it, & they made a fortune...
     
  13. shanerjedi

    shanerjedi Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Mar 17, 2010
    Nubby is right. TPM novel explains who and what the sith were. It also explained their motives and why they want revenge.

    Of course, we're talking movies here and they didn't do as well a job of it but oh well...
     
  14. Sable_Hart

    Sable_Hart Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 28, 2009
    To be honest, Star Wars has never really given its villains extraordinarily deep motivations. The Sith were handled just as deeply as the Empire was. Only towards the end of the OT did we get any sort of 'deeper' motivation for Vader; prior to that, all of them were card carrying villains.
     
  15. EmeraldBlade

    EmeraldBlade Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Apr 19, 2008
    Their philosophy.

     
  16. EmeraldBlade

    EmeraldBlade Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Apr 19, 2008
    Come to think of it, what I really wanted to know was what they wanted revenge for.

     
  17. shanerjedi

    shanerjedi Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Mar 17, 2010
    Well, if you go strictly by the movies, that is never sufficiently explained enough IMHO. But the novels do a better job covering that. And it's really pretty basic and simple. Basically one paragraph for each novel explaining the reason for revenge.
     
  18. Darth_Nub

    Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Apr 26, 2009
    I agree, just what the Sith wanted 'revenge' for is a big loose end when you only take the films into account. The concept was not presented in a vague way at all - you've got Darth Maul's line in TPM, "At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have revenge", and then the actual title of Episode III.

    As far as explanations within the films are concerned, all we get is Ki-Adi Mundi in TPM saying, "The Sith have been extinct for over a millennium", suggesting that the Jedi wiped them out, and Palpatine declaring "Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy" in ROTS, which is a no-brainer - at one point the Sith ruled the entire galaxy & were unseated.

    That's probably just enough to explain what the Sith were & why they were determined to destroy the Jedi & take over, but it's not particularly satisfying. The term 'revenge' implies that the existing Sith felt that they had been betrayed, or were the victims - from their point of view, of course - which would seem to suggest that the conflict a thousand years before was particularly dirty on both sides. One could even imagine there being a sense of guilt still being felt by the Jedi.
     
  19. Daft-Vader

    Daft-Vader Chosen One star 8

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    Aug 6, 2008
    Course the EU shows that Darth Bane wiped the Sith out himself to "rebrand" them via the rule of Two, so not really that... :/

    But I have to see, I didn't think of it at the time, but yes, the Film is Called Revenge of the Sith, but we never truly find out WHAT they want Revenge for...
     
  20. Adali-Kiri

    Adali-Kiri Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jul 31, 2000
    You people saying you want Palpatine Begins? I thought this explain-the-backstory thing was exactly what so many people hated about the PT. o_O
     
  21. shanerjedi

    shanerjedi Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Mar 17, 2010
    No one is suggesting we want a Baby Palpatine movie. Were saying we want enough motivation to power the main antagonists of the entire prequel.
     
  22. Adali-Kiri

    Adali-Kiri Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jul 31, 2000
    Just a joke, buddy. Baby Palpatine...? [face_money_eyes]

    Personally, I find the chance to rule the universe to be a decent motivation for them. Other than that, I'm with PiettsHat's post.
     
  23. shanerjedi

    shanerjedi Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Mar 17, 2010
    You mean this quote that included the bold part? :D
     
  24. Daft-Vader

    Daft-Vader Chosen One star 8

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    Aug 6, 2008
    I agree... thats what they wanted

    But as the title of the third film says, and Darth Maul said... they wanted REVENGE

    They wanted Revenge against the Jedi...?

    Why Though? Why do they want revenge against the Jedi? nothing in the Saga states why they want revenge...
     
  25. shanerjedi

    shanerjedi Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Mar 17, 2010
     
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