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Discussion of Lucas' improvising in the saga

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by metaforcesaber, Jul 29, 2003.

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  1. metaforcesaber

    metaforcesaber Jedi Master star 2

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    Oct 13, 2002
    Do you agree, in general, that Lucas has developed some SW concepts 'on the fly'?
    What are some examples of Lucas improvising ideas, story, effects, sets, etc in the saga?
    What do you think of George Lucas's improvising in the saga? Which decisions do you like and dislike?
    Do you think that the prequels illustrate a further improvisational altering of the story?

    Here are a few examples to clarify the thread a bit:
    --Luke and Leia weren't really brother and sister in Ep4 (you know what I mean). At some point not early on, GL decided to make them siblings. Because this wasn't part of the story in Ep4 so to speak, it can be seen as a sort of 'improvisation' during the making of the CT.
    --At the time of the old trilogy, Qui-Gon didn't exist. In fact, Qui-Gon was created very late in the chronological development of Star Wars. This too I believe can be seen as GL improvising.
    --In the Phantom Menace, it is very apparent when Ewan McGregor is wearing a wig. These scenes represent things that were filmed much later on, 'improvised' if you will.
     
  2. Darth_Weirdo

    Darth_Weirdo Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jul 2, 2002
    Improvising is part of film-making. And when doing a Saga like the Star Wars, then I believe that improvising and "taking things from air" is suitable. And if I remember correctly, Lucas has stated that every episode can be seen as one, but also as a part of the saga.
     
  3. metaforcesaber

    metaforcesaber Jedi Master star 2

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    Oct 13, 2002
    I see your point.

    Here's another example: When reviewing designs for the Falcon, nothing really worked. Nothing clicked. Until...Lucas eyed a hamburger that had a bite taken out of it. And there ya have it- the basic design for the Falcon.
     
  4. Darth_Weirdo

    Darth_Weirdo Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jul 2, 2002
    Well, in a way, that is the thing with directors. If they see something they like they take it and use it. An idea never goes as it was someday thought, it developes and changes all the time. I've done films (very small and bad [face_plain]) and everytime the shooting won't go as planned. Something comes up, a new idea, even a better one than the original. Of course the new idea can be worse than the original, but that's the thing with directing. ;)
     
  5. metaforcesaber

    metaforcesaber Jedi Master star 2

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    Oct 13, 2002
    Some would argue that Lucas's relatively new development of "the Force" into "midichlorians" from OT to PT is a prime example of how people's acceptance and perceptions of Lucas's improvisational tactics have changed since the OT. This has implications for the saga in general.
     
  6. Darth_Weirdo

    Darth_Weirdo Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jul 2, 2002
    That's true. I was chocked whe n I heard that Anakin had no farther and there were these midichlorians, but later I accepted it and found out that it fittted with the story. The Force is an energy field that surrounds us and combines us. Midichlorians are tiny little cells that can detect the Force.
     
  7. First_Stage_Lensman

    First_Stage_Lensman Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Feb 23, 2003
    I love the improvisational aspect of the Saga. A few things we'd be without if Lucas didn't invent as he created:

    - Vader killing Obi Wan
    - Yoda
    - Qui Gon Jinn
    - Count Dooku
    - Some of the best scenes in the Saga, filmed months after principal photography wrapped.
     
  8. qui-gon-kim

    qui-gon-kim Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 19, 2001
    Some would argue that Lucas's relatively new development of "the Force" into "midichlorians" from OT to PT is a prime example of how people's acceptance and perceptions of Lucas's improvisational tactics have changed since the OT. This has implications for the saga in general.

    Didn't Lucas say that midis were always a part of the SW story from the beginning?
     
  9. Krash

    Krash RSA Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 2000
    Improvising is part of film-making
    Or for that matter...any creative process. As a former television producer, i can tell you if you don't have some ability for improviing...your not going to succeed.

    In interviews, GL has made reference to keeping his notes from writing ANH (which included the backstory of characters/events)...which he went back to in writing TPM. Were some things changed, from his original ideas...perhaps, but that doesn't mean he isn't "staying true" to the original themes of SW.

    I don't think you can call Midichlorians a new development (from a overall story perspective). GL may have intended on not disclosing them in OT...because (from the context of the overall saga) the audience is aware of their importance from TPM. From a writing standpoint, it would be beating the subject in the ground.
     
  10. metaforcesaber

    metaforcesaber Jedi Master star 2

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    Oct 13, 2002
    I'll accept that.

    However, a lot of people were caught off guard by the midichlorian revelation. In fact, it is evident that a significant percentage of fans have a distaste for the term and meaning of "midichlorian." Not saying me here, this is just my observation. By quantifying the Force in the PT, Lucas uprooted our original perceptions of the Force. The Force was, unquestionably, presented and described and delineated in a profoundly different manner in the CT. The mystical energy field which was once indeed mystical, has been transfromed via the PT, into a purely science-fiction item, no longer as "magical." So, from a chronological perspective in terms of the actual films, Lucas improvised upon the original meanings of the Force, or at least that's my observation of how some of the audience feels.
     
  11. ValinFett21

    ValinFett21 Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Jul 24, 2003
    Lucas's way of filmaking is very imagination oriented.He sees something aned begins to think of a scene that would be good in is movie and fits it into the script. He takes many ideas and tries to fit them together in a saga.

    The prequels are good examples of this. He had no real script or actual storylines. He had the basics down. Only the fight between Anakin and Obi-Wan, certain chase scenes and the origins of Sidious and Vader were really thought out.

    When LUcas set out to write a scifi/fantasy movie, the only idea he had at first was teh rise of young Luke Starkiller as a rebel fighter against a tyrant. On the fly is when he added the ideals of the Jedi and he didn't intend Anakin to be a guy named Darth Vader. It was just an idea that he had in his head and he got the chance to put it in when he got the opportunity to make Empire.
     
  12. Krash

    Krash RSA Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 2000
    people were caught off guard by the midichlorian revelation
    "That's the real trick isn't it"
    Just because the jedi have discovered a way to measure one's ability to connect with the Force...doesn't take away from the "magical quality" of the Force. Is a rainbow less beautiful...because you know the scientific reason it exists?
     
  13. DrEvazan

    DrEvazan Jedi Youngling star 4

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    Jun 19, 2002
    Didn't Lucas say that midis were always a part of the SW story from the beginning?

    i would love to see a quote and a date.
     
  14. metaforcesaber

    metaforcesaber Jedi Master star 2

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    Oct 13, 2002
    To clarify that passive oververbed slightly deluded rant ;), I was mainly referring to the qui-gon-&-anakin midichlorian discussion and the testing for midichlorians scenes, as compared to Yoda's and Obi-Wan's 1980/1977 Force descriptions. They're definitive scenes in a way, but I shouldn't have generalized.
    I must also add that the symbiote/microscopic organism aspect is certainly cool. The audience can dig that. Though, one can argue that the word construct itself, "midichlorian," bears a resemblance to chlorinated musical instrument digital interface. To be sure, some of the audience was influenced by these two similarities to actual (relatively)common words.
    Now, to the point, does this example illustrate any sort of pattern with Lucas's improvised naming in the PT?
     
  15. Tukafo

    Tukafo Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jan 18, 2002
    well, there are a few things Lucas made up as he went along

    - Luke and Leia as siblings. This was made up for ROTJ as there's simply no way Lucas would have shown Luke enjoying Leia's snog if he had thought of them as brother and sister at that point.
    - Vader as Luke's father. Forget those Dutch meanings of words - Vader was not Luke's father when ANH was made, otherwise Lucas would have created something smarter than the "Obi-Wan was just lying" explanation. That's along the lines of "it was all a dream".
    - Jabba was totally re-designed for ROTJ. But that doesn't matter much really as it didn't contradict anything (unless of course you get the glorious idea of putting extra footage of a totally different Jabba back into the films and pretend that it was always meant to be seen that way. And Han Solo was always meant to step on Jabba's tail.Sure. And Jabba's character in that scene was always meant to be completely contradictory to the other films. Yeah right)
     
  16. Obi-Ewan

    Obi-Ewan Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jan 24, 2000
    However, a lot of people were caught off guard by the midichlorian revelation. In fact, it is evident that a significant percentage of fans have a distaste for the term and meaning of "midichlorian."

    It shouldn't have been too surprising. There had to be some reason why Anakin and Luke could both use it.
     
  17. qui-gon-kim

    qui-gon-kim Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 19, 2001
    Didn't Lucas say that midis were always a part of the SW story from the beginning?

    i would love to see a quote and a date.

    Just listen to the TPM DVD commentary.
     
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