Discussion Disney, Star Wars and the "Industry".

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by Ganger, Dec 20, 2013.

  1. newdawn12 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2013
    star 4
  2. Darth Punk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2013
    star 4
    Spider Man with a lightsaber, now I am complete
  3. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    There is no "folding in" of SW into Marvel, this simply means that SW comics and graphic novels will be created by Marvel going forward. Yes, it makes sense since both companies are owned by Disney, but as the article points out, Marvel published the original SW comics too.
  4. Master Aizakku Rorensu Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2013
    star 1
    This is what I'm talking about when I say I don't equate garbage with Disney. How they did things during Disney's down period is in the past. What they're doing now is what I'm talking about.

    I'm not sure I agree about Disney not doing "rare" very often anymore. I mean, Disney still does that Disney Vault thing, don't they? Even if they don't, they still literally invented the modern notion of "doing 'rare'."

    And about the release of new films:

    See, this where I don't quite get the concern that some have when it comes to the number and frequency of the new films. And what I mean is that every single one of us is aware that there can be too much Star Wars. Granted, each one of us has our own number as to what's too much, but we all know that there's a saturation point. So if every single one of us is fully aware of this, why would anyone think that Disney isn't fully aware of this?

    Again, I say they'll release this first batch of 5 of 6 films, then wait 5 or 10 years, and then release another batch. I mean, if you were in charge at Disney what would you do? They're the largest media conglomerate in the world, so they're not stupid out there in Burbank.
  5. jaqen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2004
    star 4
    Hence "anymore".

    The "vault" is null and void in a world where home media is more available than ever; Disney is literally unable to seriously control the flow of the market once a product has already been pressed and released. They certainly don't care enough about "rarity" to sacrifice profits and press far less media. And many of those films in the sacred "vault" have been milked hard with a plethora of straight-to-home-media knock offs, very poorly produced sequels and prequels.


    You need to read Disney Wars, it's an excellent view into the deterioration of this company. You've readily admitted you know very little about Disney, so your adamant rebuttals are rather odd.


    Dude, Disney has had a couple shareholder meetings since acquiring Lucasfilm where they flat out promised that they plan to release Star Wars films every 2-3 years into perpetuity.

    Their KNOWN business plan is to milk this franchise dry, just like they are doing with the Avengers. The current Avenger cycle literally has no end in sight. The new ST is merely a finishing of the old, a way to draw the word back into Star Wars, while using it as a launch point to spin off as many characters, and make as many films, as possible. They didn't pay 4 billion dollars for Lucas films in order to keep Star Wars as a rare commodity. This is not speculation amongst chatterers on a message board. This, once again, is the model laid out and promised to the actual shareholders.
    Last edited by jaqen, Jan 3, 2014
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  6. Master Aizakku Rorensu Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2013
    star 1
    Not to belabor the point on the Disney Vault because it's really not that important, but a quick Google search showed that the most recent release from the Disney Vault was The Little Mermaid on October 1st, 2013.

    So unless they stopped it within the last few months and that was the last release forever from the Disney Vault, it still seems to be something that Disney does.

    Anyway, again, it's not really that important.

    Yeah, I'm just going to have to wait and see on this because 1) I don't believe for a second that Disney's business plan for Star Wars is to milk it dry, and 2) I do chalk any and all "Disney is going to milk Star Wars dry" talk up to nothing more than speculation amongst chatterers on a message board.

    I often find that there's a segment of any fandom that is resistant to change and almost always imagines the worst case scenario when it comes to said change.

    So yeah, we'll just agree to disagree, I guess.

    And the Disney Wars? I Googled that and it was a book publish in 2005 about Disney. Why would I want to read a book published in 2005 and apply it to Disney in 2014 and beyond?

    EDIT: just to add that I am aware that Disney plans to release Star Wars movies "into perpetuity," but I imagine we may just have a different interpretation on what that means. I again feel that Disney will release this first batch of movies, then wait 5 to 10 years, then release another batch. I'm guessing that you're suggesting that Disney is just going to release them back-to-back-to-back for years on end with no break. If you do think that, then yeah, I think that's ridiculous, and we'll have to agree to disagree and that too.
    Last edited by Master Aizakku Rorensu, Jan 3, 2014
  7. Jedi Comedian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2012
    star 2
    Well, except in that example, Lucasfilm would have to be actively sending you new Star Wars material.

    Now, if they're not, and you're going to the cinema to watch the films, or buying merchandise, or spending time discussing the new material on a dedicated Star Wars message board, then that's analogous to actively seeking out those videos of your ex-girlfriend and her new beau.

    If you follow the analogy through, you're opening that wound yourself, instead of moving on (watching other films).

    If it helps, don't think of it as an attack of PT "bashers". Think of it as an attack on boring Star Wars fans. My beef is, and always has been, with the vocal minority of fans who bring up the same tired old points ad nauseum, crushing any interesting discourse that could occur. That covers film purists and EU snobs, as well as the more confrontational and uncreative PT "gushers", but sad to say it is mostly the prequel detractors who suppress entertaining conversation in Star Wars fandom. "Hey, there's new Star Wars movies coming!" "Great, I'll dig out this 17 paragraph post of my complaints with The Phantom Menace. Sure it's all the same stuff covered in hundreds of other blogposts and videos, but people need to hear this!"

    Of course, this isn't really relevant any more to the thread, so if anyone would like more elaboration on the matter, feel free to continue this with me by PM.
  8. Pfluegermeister Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    Yeah, frankly, I was expecting this announcement from the moment the Disney sale itself was announced. And it's yet another of those many signs that the franchise is heading in a better direction. Dark Horse has DEFINITELY made some outstanding contributions over the past twenty years, there's no arguing that fact, but it's undoubtedly become part of the "tired blood" syndrome that was running roughshod across the franchise right up to 2012. Because no firm vision was coming down from LFL, DH could only spin its wheels trying to find something creative to do. That's not to say it hasn't done right by Star Wars during its tenure, but if we really want to be honest, Marvel did right by it also; there were a number of arcs that had depth and emotion equal to the best of the DH series' arcs. As long as the brand hires proper competent writers, the name on the label hardly matters.

    What DOES matter is that now, there is clearly a sense of confidence coming out of LFL, a sense that they have a direction and a goal now. The Marvel transition is just further evidence of this. I may not know what that goal is, but they sure seem to, and that translates to the impressions they've been making via their public statements, their interactions with customers, and their general strategy since October 2012. Frankly, that firmness just wasn't there before. The vibe dominating LFL before was either defensiveness or just a sense of not knowing where they were going to go. They couldn't know; as long as Lucas was undecided about what he himself was going to do, with his personal life or with the franchise, the company was left hanging. That's not the case anymore, and I find the new optimism and determination coming out of the company to be quite refreshing.
    Last edited by Pfluegermeister, Jan 3, 2014
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  9. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    LOL, these "points" have long since been deconstructed by myself and others. Especially your embarrassing attempts to paint those who (accurately) call Lucas out as a, "vocal minority." Then you offer me to debate you in PL. That's cute, but offer some actual substance to you're argument, son. It's not about YOU.
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  10. Jedi Comedian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2012
    star 2
    Well, it kind of is. I find people who say the same things over and over again boring. Especially when their diatribes are brought up in an unrelated conversation. I find it hard to believe anyone will prove me wrong about that

    I think the fact that you took my post and read it entirely (and completely inaccurately) as a strawman opposition to your own views tells me everything I need to know about the kind of Star Wars fan you are.

    But then again, I should have known that.
    Last edited by Jedi Comedian, Jan 3, 2014
  11. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    OK guys, please play nice.
  12. jaqen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2004
    star 4
    That's a nice strawman, but it won't work. This conversation never was, nor is, about any "resistance" to change. I am probably one of the last SW fans you can accuse of being stubborn and "resistant to change". You're talking to a whole saga lover here who has embraced many of the changes Lucas has made to the scope, size, and nature of the saga. I have no problem with Star Wars breaking new ground.

    I just won't ignore what I know about Disney as a company, what I've known about them long before they bought Lucasfilm, just for the sake of change. Disney isn't evil, they just have a proven and proud business model that I am suspect will be the best for Star Wars in the long run. I actually am quite excited about what they have to offer for this upcoming trilogy.

    I'm not giving you my "ridiculous" opinion here, I'm stating that which the Disney corp itself has made public:

    Lucasfilm fits perfectly with Disney's strategic priorities. It is a sustainable source of branded, high quality creative content with tremendous global appeal that will benefit all of Disney's business units and is incredibly well suited for new business models, including digital platforms. Adding the Lucasfilm IP to our existing Disney, Pixar and Marvel IP clearly enhances our ability to serve consumers, strengthening our competitive position -- and we are confident we can earn a return on invested capital well in excess of our cost of capital.
    Star Wars in particular is a strong global brand, and one of the greatest family entertainment franchises of all time, with hundreds of millions of fans around the globe. Its universe of more than 17,000 characters inhabiting several thousand planets spanning 20,000 years offers infinite inspiration and opportunities – and we're already moving forward with plans to continue the epic Star Wars saga.
    The last Star Wars movie release was 2005's Revenge of the Sith – and we believe there's substantial pent up demand. In 2015, we're planning to release Star Wars Episode 7 – the first feature film under the "Disney-Lucasfilm" brand. That will be followed by Episodes 8 and 9 – and our long term plan is to release a new Star Wars feature film every two to three years.
    - See more at: http://thewaltdisneycompany.com/dis...ey-acquire-lucasfilm-ltd#sthash.c6WwbwWN.dpuf


    These plans have been further reiterated since this release.

    But sure, they're excited about the THOUSANDS of characters, the "infinite inspiration and opportunities", and the promise to release feature films EVERY 2-3 years...

    Just so they can knock out a couple films and put Star Wars away for decades at a time.

    Sounds just like Disney, totally.
  13. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    I think that at this point Disney gushers are more of a problem than Lucas bashers.
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  14. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 7
    I think that at this point people need to learn how to debate topics rather than insult the people they are debating. Or my next line of thinking will be adding up ban hours.
  15. Pfluegermeister Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    Gee, isn't it great when I'm NOT the source of the problem? ;)

    It's true that there's been a lot of tension of late. I'm certainly not immune, but we all know that. I'd like to hope all of our steam will dissipate when we finally see some product of SOME kind coming out of Disney/LFL, whether it's Rebels, or a comic series, or even just the Episode VII teaser. Hell, even an announcement of ANY significance whatsoever. As long as there's a complete vacuum, as there is now, it's possible for us to have a question about how Disney intends to approach this plan of theirs, with a complete absence of evidence to provide even a hint of an answer.
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  16. Master Aizakku Rorensu Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2013
    star 1
    Sure it was. The very notion that Disney will milk Star Wars dry implies a resistance to change, and is a clear example of a worst case scenario.

    Okay, so you're suspect of the change. Me, on the other hand, have no reservation whatsoever and wholly embrace the change to Disney. I think it's the greatest thing to happen to Star Wars since I learned of the prequel trilogy. And I will continue to think it's the greatest thing to happen to Star Wars until I know otherwise; basically until after I see Episode VII and judge whether I like it or not.

    So we're not too different in our overall outlook. There's just that one major difference on being suspect of the change.

    Please don't exaggerate what I said. I hate when people do that.

    Anyway, I said I feel that they will release this first batch of films, this 5 or 6 (or however many they're planning), not "knock out a couple of films." Then wait 5 to 10 years, not "decades at a time," 5 to 10 years, then release another batch of films, another trilogy or whatever.

    Again, though, if your interpretation of that press release is that you actually think Disney plans to release movie upon movie, upon movie, upon movie, with no break whatsoever and just run it into the ground, then that's what I think is ridiculous and can't fantom why anyone would think that. It doesn't any make sense. Surely you don't believe that, and if you do, then that's just another clear example of a worst case scenario.
  17. Darth Punk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2013
    star 4
    Disney's acquisitions of Marvel and Lucasfilm are only two parts of a three part strategy- next they have to find a way to clone Cumberbatch.
  18. Darth PJ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2013
    star 4
    It's all realative of course... I think the plan will be to release a movie every year, from 2015, for at least 6/7 years... along with 'Rebels' and other media... and then Disney will take it from there. I think what people probably need to accept is that Star Wars, as it was, is gone (in terms of the movies advancing technology exponentially, setting the new standard for a blockbuster, cultural phenomenon etc). And all things considered, I expect the next 10 years to consist of some good and some not so good things relating to Star Wars (as it's ever been but just more of it).
  19. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    @Jedi Comedian

    I am a fan(atic) and as such I don't derive as much pleasure from other films as I do from SW ones. Because I am a fan(atic) I also care what happens with said movies I am a fan about and also care about public perception of said movies. The movies for me are more than entertainment. They've been an inspiration and changed my life. They got me into writing fanfictions. And that in turn got me into professional writing, one of my favorite hobbies. I'm just not capable of ignoring what happens to them and what happens around them. It is really not hard to understand.
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  20. jaqen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2004
    star 4

    Films released, scheduled for release, or announced under Disney's Marvel acquisition:

    The Avengers (2012)
    Iron Man 3 (2013)
    Thor: The Dark World (2013)
    Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014)
    Guardians of the Galaxy (2014)
    The Avengers: Age of Ultron (2015)
    Ant-Man (2015)
    Untitled Marvel Film (2016)
    Untitled Marvel Film (2017)
    Nick Fury (announced)

    Yes, I'm not making any sense whatsoever. Disney does not have any history of milking it's acquisitions. I am stubborn, resistant to change, and delusional.
  21. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Milking the franchise is what Lucas did all these decades (especially with the re-re-re-rereleases) but now suddenly Disney is the devil for doing it too?
  22. jaqen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2004
    star 4
    I've already made it clear that I am talking about feature releases.

    So you think that George releasing just two trilogies in nearly 30 years qualifies as over milking the franchise?
  23. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    What are Jarjar and Grievous, if not toy-characters used for the purpose of selling toys? Yes I indeed think the last feature movies (TCW and TPM 3D) were milking the franchise.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Jan 4, 2014
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  24. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 7
    The same could be said about Chewbacca and Vader, but the bias doesn't slant in that direction, so it won't be said. It may be shocking to us intellectual, sophisticated adults that there are children who adore those characters... as intended.
    Last edited by A Chorus of Disapproval, Jan 4, 2014
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  25. ezekiel22x Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    Indeed. To say nothing of the children and other assorted fans who, ah, you know, have purchased a countless number of Han and Luke action figures over the years. I know that ESB explores the human condition in ways that make Bergman's Persona look like a cartoon, but for some weird reason the latter hasn't sold as many toy tie-ins.