Discussions Official Disney/EU discussion thread.

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Going against the Party's Interests? We've always been at war with Bantam.

 

Why so?

 

I guess it is difficult to debate personal taste and preferences. Personally I don't think the EU was all crap, granted much of the writing style in those stories was very mediocre, I get that. But for me it never mattered. I basically grew up with EU and through those stories I truly fell in love with SW. So there is no getting over the fact that those stories and the characters within them will no longer be developed. And while some of the stories may have been badly written what the EU did, and did well, is expanding and deepening the most important themes of the original trilogy: the concept of the force - like the rule of two within the Sith order for example, moral dilemmas of the Jedi working for/with the government, racism against aliens and many many more moral issues that touch the reader on a much deeper level then shallow synthetic stories we saw in Clone Wars or are going to see in SW Rebels. So the writing doesn't have to be that great if you have a bit of imagination and are passionate about immersing yourself in a story.

Those defending Disney's decision often say: "Be happy that SW will continue in a big way with Disney's large budget"; "Look how well they did with Marvel"; Abrams did a great job with Star Trek"... Again, this are valid points but it all depends on your perspective. Sure, I was entertained by recent Marvel's films, but it was a very shallow and momentary entertainment, I don't re-imagine or relive those stories after leaving the theater. I have the same problem with Abrams's Star Trek movies, very entertaining films but so very far from the captivating philosophical depth of the TV series.

On the one hand I perfectly understand Disney's decisions from a purely business perspective. They never saw the EU universe fans as their target audience. Heck, even old grandpa Lucas didn't consider us too seriously. Disney is aiming for a the wide audience and they know that with or without EU they will still make millions of dollars on this franchise. So why bother with the EU? Too much hassle - trying to figure out how to maneuver around all those stories and characters and much easier to simply market their efforts as something new and original.
However, the painful fact is that the new direction for SW is heading away from that magic that attracted me and many others into this universe. Because in essence, to truly enjoy any kind of story, be it sci-fi or fantasy I need a bit more then predictably shallow heroic archetypes fighting evil. In fact what Disney is doing by trying to create something "new and fresh" will have the exact opposite effect. New original stories but delivered in an unoriginal flimsy fashion for the mindless, content-devouring-locust of the mass entertainment market. Granted, many characters and stories in the EU are also shallow and unoriginal but by abandoning the endlessly complex maze of EU to start from a "clean slate" they also abandoned the immersive depth of that universe as a whole. An imperfect whole, full of inconsistencies and tears but still a single fabric of lore that took 30 years to create. Sure the stories are still there, on my shelf, but they are only relics and memories with no future... and that hurts. Because for me those stories however flawed collectively hold more emotional value then the shallow and syntetic stuff like Clone Wars or the upcoming SW Rebels.

Oh well, I never had high hopes for the Disney SW to start with, what I hoped for was actually very little: That the old EU would be continued in books, as an alternate universe, for thousands of people like myself who religiously read them year after year. They already had all the writers in place so why not? For the new trilogy I only hoped that at least they will keep the Skywalker/Solo family intact: the solo twins perhaps, Mara Jade, Ben - but tell a different story about them. I could have lived with that... A small but symbolic nod towards those of us who got emotionally attached to those characters - a sign of respect for our life long passion.

 

I think the best way we can see Disney handling the now officially 'legends' material is to see how they incorporated elements of the other massive universe they inherited before making films of it - Marvel. While the Marvel Cinematic Universe is a separate universe from the comics, they take a huge number of elements from those comics and use them... either as easter eggs or elements to later expand upon in the films.

Looking at the collection of people we have now working for Lucasfilm, a lot of them are huge Star Wars fans that are pretty big on the EU. They will use every bit of it they think will fit in. Even when TCW radically changed the mandalorians, they used Karen Traviss's Mando'a language in a scene. The sheer number of nods and illusions to previous works in TCW is amazing - but they tend to be subtle things: more easter eggs then full on shout outs.

A good clue as to what we can expect could be from things that the creators said they wanted to put in TCW but decided against or were told to ax... Revan making an appearance in a force vision, a possible Mara Jade cameo in the episode about Jedi children being abducted by Sidious, and the original conception of the ISB agent in Rebels being a Chiss officer.

Many of them love the EU just as much as we do, but they're also smart enough to know what will work and what won't for film and television in the future. Since the announcement of Episode VII, I expected a culling of the EU in some regard - though I had hoped for a soft reboot type cut-off around the time of the Thrawn Duology or Survivor's Quest. Even with the announcement we've gotten I would not expect some of the old EU not to cast a huge shadow over subsequent stories.

We may never have the Thrawn Trilogy be re-canonized or adapted, but I would bet money that we will see Thrawn and Mara Jade in the new books. Heck, I would love for us to be reintroduced to Jade in Rebels... by having her on the crew for a season as an infiltrator before handing them over to Vader or the Inquisitor (for extra chills, make her the youngest one in the show and don't have her say her name until she's revealed).

Rebels really shows just how much these guys know and love the Star Wars EU in a lot of ways. The ISB? An Inquisitor? Hera and Kanan relationship echoing that of Corran Horn - Mirax Terrik and Kyle Katarn - Jan Ors. The return of the All-Terrain Advanced Raider walker in the previews... It goes on and on.

 

I recall allusions in one of the early seasons to Mace fighting Separatists on Dantooine - seems like a nod to the miniseries.

 

We all have a say in how we respond to the decisions the Mouse is making with a beloved universe. I am glad that some are pleased and excited by the new direction however I can equally empathise with those that are having a struggle with it. Whereas some find the echoes, transfer of names, and a few visual clues to be cause for hope and joy others see it as a distortion of something they'd prefer remained unchanged. Both stances are valid.

 

I cannot disagree with your optimism and those subtle allusions will most certainly appear. However I see them more as cosmetic and superficial allusions rather then actual references to the organically grown reality of the EU. I don't much care about specific stories and events, single vehicles or buildings. What I will miss is what has grown around those events, namely a network of characters - a social and moral fabric that connects it all. Oh, for God's sake, just give us Mara Jade and all is good again

 

Well said, @Crownsith: I agree all except the Mara bit. I want my Gilad darn it. Only character that bests Dooku for me.

 

If Thrawn and Mara come back, it won't be long before Gilad Pellaeon shows up. In fact, I'd be shocked if they didn't use him again... I'd pay for a documentary style film just on Endor so we could see the whole battle and people involved. Pellaeon ordering the fleet's withdrawal and so forth.

A lot depends on who everyone in VII is playing. If we end up with a Ben Skywalker and a pair of Solos, most of the overall framework of a lot of the EU will be left roughly intact. Then they can basically replace bits with new books, films, or other adaptions as time goes on. I will say there is just about no possible way for the Yuuzhan Vong invasion to stick around in the new canon.

If we have no Skywalker child, different Solos, and a Luke Skywalker that is explicitly depicted as never being married - well, then things will take a radical turn. Still, I think they'll try to bring back prominent EU characters even then... I just hope they don't kriff it up in the process.

 

I wish they would just give us their clear vision for the future of Star Wars. Not spoil the movie, just tell us what kind of reboot or sequel this is in terms less amazingly vague than the Announcement. It's maddening that they seem to have done what I feared, but might be doing what I've hoped for.
Character names would be the first big thing I'd expect, and go a long way towards clarifying things for us fans, while being a cool preview with little meaning for casual moviegoers.
But no, I suspect we'll be getting "Mystery Box" all the way.

 

I expect both a radical shift away from the characters we know and only token references to things, places, phenomena and perhaps some lesser characters, plus the "Mystery Box" all the way... But I kind of like the mystery, because in my childlike naivete I still hope for some of my favorite characters to "come back to life". But since I expect the worst, and rather be pleasantly surprised, the longer we wait the longer I can keep some hope alive...

 

You really have a positive outlook on things. Good for you.

A part of me feels Disney won't listen at all.

They better have Luke married. Honestly, no one wants Leia to be the last girl he kissed, especially if it's her sister.

 

well offscreen he could have had several relationships and have been married. His wife could have been killed by a Mando or something. I am fine either way, as long as Luke is in character and very powerful

 

Even if he didn't get married, why does it matter? Being wanted does not equal being accomplished.

 

I really wanted some more back story on the zillo beast! Disney sucks

 

Bardan Edit: You've been told before. No advertising.

 

Something that really irks me how, ever since the Legends rebranding, I've seen a lot of people write off the EU as completely irrelevant to discussion, never to be spoken of again. It's a fact that Legends can be used as a resource for future material, so basically, until there is an official discrepancy, most of it is more or less still canon. Schrödinger's canon so to speak.

 

I want to step in to this discussion, as the first thing I ever say on this busy board, to throw a few cents:

@ the above: There is no such thing as "expanded" universe anymore. For a long time, I dreaded this term, because it kept looking as way in which one could just disregard it as something additional or unnecessary. "You can eat the cake without the cherry, it's just a decoration."

I will paraphrase something someone here said sometime ago:
"My biggest gripe with this is: those people that said you're too obsessed with Star Wars and the stuff beyond the movies doesn't matter? They win."

Perhaps, but it is just a temporary win, after that will come their most crushing and sure defeat.
There is no "expanded" anymore, now it's the U.

It is one single cohesive continuity, without any levels anymore, so what you see in a book or videogame holds as much weight in the big picture as the Sequel Trilogy will and all the spin-off movies in-between. If already they had to meticulously keep a Holocron and avoid as many contradictions as possible when new material came out, it's going to be even more so now, since TV and Movies are not in a higher level of canon anymore.

Movies and TV will still have priority of course, but not in a way in which they throw all of those stories out the window.
They don't win. Surely you can watch the movies without knowing a thing of what happens in the videogames, but it's just the same as sticking only with novels and not reading any comic books. Hey, we have a whole section dedicated to just Literature, as there's many people that only take on that form of art besides the movies.

And if there's ever a X-XII trilogy, it's gonna have to respect what happened after Episode IX. That's what they're ensuring. I expect great things from Rebels, in line with all they're releasing in comics and novels (though I hope they step away from familiar territory, because it's boring to see Luke, Vader and Leia after going through the farthest extremes in the timeline and already seeing a hundred stories with them).

 

Because the hero should have a happy ending? Plus him having children and continuing the Skywalker Legacy with him and his offspring continuing on with heroic deeds would be an ultimate triumph over the dark legacy of Darth Vader. He can be the father Anakin failed to be.

 

My EU is largely some of the comics, particularly those by John Ostrander and Jan Duursema. I'd like to see more of their ideas used in the present canon. I am interested in seeing what Disney might use going forward.

 

ive been reading the EU stuff pretty heavily for the past few years. gotten from original trilogy era books up just finishing survivors quest, and honestly if episode vii sucks, at least i have another 40+ books to enjoy lol.

honestly i would love to see the new canon cherry pick the best elements of the EU while maybe re thinking some of the lesser parts. i hope the EU rogue characters make an appearance, the chiss, most certainly the plagueis backstory. definitely cant live without Kyle Katarn! and im certainly loving that A New Dawn and rebels are keeping alot of the Eu organizations and terminology consistant.

it would be especially nice if they could incorporate the Entirety of the EU in some way, maybe luke glimpses that future in a vision, and decides to do things differently thus creating a new future for the films.

 

Continuity is silly. See superhero movies. Move along. Move along.


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I'd like to see the new story group get together every year or so and choose maybe one or two "Legends" books to adopt back into canon. Look at Shadows of the Empire. Is there any real reason not to bring that book into the canon? With all of the involvement from Lucasfilm and the sheer scale of that project, it seems like it'd be a no brainer. I think it would be kind of cool every year to reintegrate a previous EU story into the larger canon. Maybe even a certain comic or something. It'd have to be carefully done, but it'd be a great gesture.

 

That seems short sighted. If you love certain characters and time periods, you want to see them have a solid line of history that you can count on that fills a tapestry of who they are. Hary Cary does not do that.