Lit Disney Wars: Episode 7 and the EU (Spoiler Thread)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by TypoCelchu, Oct 30, 2012.

  1. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    While that's true, I've always had the impression the biggest problems from TCW have been more because of the narrow mindedness of whoever writes the summaries for the OS than some of the possibly innocent errors in the episodes themselves.

    Sure, disregard is annoying, but we see it in most novels too, it just doesn't "jump out" at people as easily as when it's a moving picture on the TV screen ("Oh, Golden screwed up again? Whatever. I'll ignore that page and call it a typo"). We could be doing the same thing for TCW that we do for when a new author stuffs up their research, but it's been the powers beyond the show itself who have made issues out of things that could easily have just been hand waved aside.

    At the end of the day, however EU friendly the ST sets out to be, I'm not expecting it to be 100% successful -- few books ever are -- which is why I'll be more concerned with what Disney themselves are motivated by. The primacy of their "artistic vision" like Lucas was? Or will they just be more willing to shrug and say "whatever" and let bygones be bygones if the ST makes a blooper?
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  2. blackmyron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    The main problem with CWAS is that they don't disregard the EU. Because if that would be the case, a lot of the problems would go away. "Ryloth" and "Maridun" and other terms never appeared in the movies. If they had ignored the EU and made up some new Twi'lek planet, that would've been a lot less trouble than pulling a well-established EU planet and then ignoring 90% of the information about it. I've said it before - EU fans are just annoyed and casual fans could care less about a reference to the EU. So why use them?
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  3. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Because EU fans would be twice as pissed if you changed the twilek world of ryloth to be the world of twilekar or something,,,
  4. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Right, but if you remember from the panel, they apparently generally intend to follow the EU -- except when Lucas intervenes and says "no, it's gotta be this way!"

    And I guess I have the other perspective: I'd rather see EU "validated" on screen than have it not appear at all. I hear you in that they could just make other worlds without changing established ones and that's a fair point, but a lot of the minor, subtle EU references are pretty great. Admittedly some of them even go over my head.
  5. windu4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2008
    star 4
    I feel like Ryloth was the biggest burn LFL has ever given the EU. That was pretty cold of them.

    (In my defense I thought it was funny.)
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  6. blackmyron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    I give them a partial pass for Season One, because apparently they weren't aware that Lucas would be suddenly micromanaging the series when they initially started (it's still fairly obvious to me that the whole Satine storyline originally had nothing to do with Mandalorians), but there was no cause for it to continue. (And would it have really been that difficult to cross out "Ryloth" and write in "Twilekia" or whatever before the voicework was done?)
    Minor, subtle EU references are fine - and they have done those sometimes in the series. But I would greatly prefer to only hear about off-hand references to an EU planet, for instance, and never see one on the screen. Unless they actually plan to use an EU planet the way that it was made.

    I really hope that Abrams works with new planets (exception granted for important worlds like Coruscant) - we don't need to see that the latest Threat to the SW Galaxy has its headquarters on Mustafar or Hoth*.




    * - Yes, I still believe that CWAS will not be able to resist and will have episodes set on Hoth.
  7. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    So you would prefer it if, say, Scipio became the Muun homeworld rather than Muunilinst? Then what, all the references to Ryloth and/or Muunilinst are suddenly references to some random colony world that these species had? Isn't that just as terrible?

    edit: Worse, in fact, because at least the usage of Ryloth and Muunlinst constitute acknowledgements that the EU exists and has made contributions, but the use of Twi'lekville or Scipio exclusively suggest that the creators don't think EU exists at all.

    This grizzled old veteran of the canon wars would not like that one bit. :p
    Last edited by GrandAdmiralJello, Jan 26, 2013
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  8. windu4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2008
    star 4
    I still think that TCW is the bane of the EU but that's just me.
  9. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    I hate the choice of J.J Abrams. I hated star trek and I thought super 8 was meh. I really wish it was spielberg.

    Im gonna hope his treatment of EU is similar to ST though.
    Last edited by BoromirsFan, Jan 26, 2013
  10. Dynoblaze Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 16, 2010
    star 1
    At least I now have the additional hope of a Force caused Time Warp thingy that splits off the current Star Wars universe from the new one that Disney will pimp out till the franchise is dead other than to sell toys....
  11. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. Look at my icon -- I never for the life of me thought we'd see Monument Plaza depicted on screen, and TCW did it. That alone justifies the show's existence, imo. :p Yeah, they combined two different McQuarrie sketches to do it and therefore changed its appearance from the way the EU described it but it was actually a change for the better.

    Seeing the plaza, the restaurants, and Umate on screen might've been my biggest ZOMG moment in the entire show.
  12. darthzac14 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 3
    I don't believe JJ should have any say about EU and canon. He's director, Michael Arndt is the writer so it's more likely his decision/thing
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  13. son_of_skywalker03 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2003
    star 4
    Isn't Lucas closer to his role in regards to Ep VII as he was with TESB than he was the PT?
  14. blackmyron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    No, because the EU could work with that a lot better than, say, showing Muunilinst to be covered with jungles and the Muuns living in Egyptian-inspired architecture. Scipio is an unknown, and the EU can fill in the vast amount of information that the CWAS won't provide.

    When the CWAS ends, they can easily deal with something new rather than the trashing of something established. The problem has always been with the off-hand way they change something that leaves absolutely no room for interpretation - case in point, the arbitrary moving of Rodia from the Mid Rim to Outer Rim. Why? Doesn't matter, a single line caused the planet to move without discussion. That's the problem.
  15. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    This grizzled old veteran is with myron - it's drastically easier for a species to have multiple "homeworlds" than for one planet to have two completely opposing depictions.
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  16. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    Just wait till they change Byss to a into a Zeltron pleasure resort :p
    Last edited by Robimus, Jan 26, 2013
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  17. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    ....why would you say something so awful? :_|
  18. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    See, with Ryloth, I never saw an issue with that in itself. It could easily have been hand waived aside as Ryloth III rather than Ryloth II or whatever other planet in the system you wanted to go with.

    Likewise, Mandalore never bothered me at all. "Mandalore" like "Bastion" have both been more than just names, but also akin to cultural capitals, like how there were multiple Alexandrias. They could equally easily have said that after one of the civil wars, one faction broke off, founded a New Mandalore, and that was that. Easy. Abel Pena lives for that kind of stuff.

    Lazy writing? On one hand, yes, but no more than a lot of the EU. But the EU always retcons itself, we forget about it, live happily ever after. How many worlds have been called the birthplace of the Sith species? That's why I find the narrow minded interpretation is the real issue, both with TCW and inevitably the ST, as an editorial team that go "This is how it is. Deal with it." just aren't trying, when it'd be just as easy to utilise one of the simple overnight retcon devices that the EU has been using for decades to explain discrepancies.

    The irony is how I'd bet money on TCW itself being retconned in 10 years time to make it fit better. It's just that it's the "in" thing right now. Which is why I'm fully expecting, even with the most EU loving team, that the ST will be allowed to steamroll things, even when they'll probably be just as easily retconnable in a future sourcebook.
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Jan 26, 2013
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  19. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    Thats fine but officially speaking the Marvel/Traviss Mandalore and TCW Mandalore are the same world.
  20. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Which is my point.

    The episode itself doesn't have a character say "This is the same place". It's the external commentary on the episode that has said that. Which needn't have been the case, and is why my concern is less who the ST's director or scriptwriter are, and more on who is going to be giving comment on it.

    I've said elsewhere, even if Ben Skywalker doesn't appear, that doesn't mean he doesn't exist. Does Obi-Wan Kenobi ever say in ANH that he isn't on the run from his wife because he had an adulterous affair and has spawned twelve kids? No it doesn't. That could have been the case. It wasn't ANH that established him as a bachelor. For all anybody knew, Han Solo was his long lost son.

    Likewise, any "problems" that arise from the ST are less likely to come down to what Abrams does or doesn't do, and more to do with what whoever writes the Making of Episode 7 book decides to include without thinking.

    Most EU works don't get sourcebooks released at the same time as they're released. And that is why most things get retconned before they become a problem. TOR had loads of problems. But thankfully they got sorted out even before the game's release. TCW? It has silly OOC summaries the minute the episode airs, and that is why you get things established in stone, long before they need be. The kind of problems it has, though, aren't actually any different to most novels or video games.

    Which is why the people who worry me the most are the authors who write the mountains of accompanying tie-in merchandise crap that always want to try and be clever.
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Jan 26, 2013
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  21. Jedi Comedian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2012
    star 2
    I really don't see it as a problem. You realise we're actually now complaining about planets having ecosystems as diverse as Earth? Why can't Mandalore have deserts and jungles?

    (I mean, from a meta-story point of view it makes sense - the New Mandos are at odds with the old ones, so they have to leave the lush jungles behind and live in the wastelands.)

    Anyway, I maintain my stance that the death of the EU is preferable to ridiculous retcons. "Oh, Chewie didn't really die, he was a clone at that point and the real one was held captive on a prison planet." "Oh yeah, Luke has a teenage daughter, he was just keeping her secret so the Empire couldn't get her." "Oh, Lando died years ago, but he had a twin brother who we all call Lando." There is only so far the ST can diverge before keeping Star Wars as on continuity becomes a farce.
  22. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Marvel continuity says hello. :p

    Still part of the EU though.
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  23. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Well, a sense of humor is certainly needed if you're supposed to hang on for more than a couple of books. And it sure shouldn't bee too sophisticated ;)
    I think it's amazing and priceworthy how much the EU actually is able to embrace. And I think the deal that those who don't want to, can stick to the movies, has proves itself a good concept. I hope both praxes continue.
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  24. cthugha Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2010
    star 3
    Actually I don't see the problem with that... wasn't it marketed by Palps (or his strawbeings) as a paradise world? :p
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  25. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    That would confirm the theory that Zeltrons are really descended from Sith. :p