Lit Disney Wars: Episode 7 and the EU (Spoiler Thread)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by TypoCelchu, Oct 30, 2012.

  1. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    While I didn't like what TCW ultimately did with it and thought FOTJ's "explanation" positively stupid, I actually don't mind Mortis in principle when approached in a more abstract way. If it was something mysterious encountered for the first time in a film (sadly too late for that now of course), then I think it actually could have been rather cool in a fantasy/sci-fi genre blending kind of way.

    I mean, the ST needs to do something other than ghosts and laser swords to make it fresh and exciting again, and Mortis could have been just the thing to make it different to every other science fiction series with lightsaber derivatives and telekinesis these days. But Lucas blew it by using it too soon in TCW, so now the ST needs to think up something different.

    Although I suppose they could always have the new protagonist visit the Whills or something for a similar "spirit realm" kind of thing.
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Jan 30, 2013
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  2. DelRiego Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2002
    star 2

    I don't quite get the "Lucas is out and away with everything from him" feeling from people. It's more like wishful thinking IMO.
    For starters, after this deal, he is the second largest stakeholder of Disney (in terms of stakes, not size :p). Then you have him endorsing K.Kennedy, endorsing M.Arndt, endorsing JJ Abrams, pitching the ideas for the script to be written. In all, it seems almost the same king of involvement he has with TCW. Heck, if you think drastically, the Disney deal was more about outsourcing SW than stepping out.
  3. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    On a separate topic, this conversation has got me thinking about possible antagonists again...

    As much as I've previously said I fully expect either another Sith or Mother Talzin or something, I've actually just considered something quite different: anti mutant attitudes in X-Men.

    Lucas and Star Wars are both strongly influenced by religion, right? With the Sith having basically been the Devil worshippers to the Jedi's righteous monks? Well, here's something we haven't seen that much from Lucas himself: atheists. Not Vong, but just people who have had enough of those lousy Jedi (their Republic failed in PT) and those twisted Sith (their Empire failed too).

    Sure, we've had stuff like Daala or the Mandos in the EU, but nowhere in the films themselves has there been anything but the odd individual character who doesn't believe in hokey religions or thinks the Jedi and their sorcerous ways wiped out. But what if someone took that further? Lucas made the Force genetic when he came out with midichlorians, so is he the kind of author who'd also think there could be a genetic "solution" like the sort of thing we've seen in X-Men stories?

    It'd be a cliche, but then Star Wars was a cliche, and it would avoid the obvious Sith cliche, whilst dealing with a rather contemporary philosophical issue that I imagine would be something Lucas might worry about, i.e. the decline of religious faith. So would he be likely to go with the idea of Luke having had more problems than just the Empire to deal with, but with the very fact that the galaxy -- as seen in people as close to him as Han! -- had completely lost faith in the Force, and no longer want Jedi anymore than they want the Dark Lord of the Sith invading their homes?

    Just a random thought that suddenly sprung into my mind as something I could picture Lucas himself feeling concerned about and potentially having thought he could turn into a metaphor to use as a story. The enemy then wouldn't be the dark side of the Force, but the absence of the Force and the threat its followers could disappear entirely, whether light or dark.
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Jan 30, 2013
  4. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    Plagueis will be back. I feel it in my bones.

    Though your idea is curious at the same time.
    Last edited by Sinrebirth, Jan 30, 2013
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  5. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    As someone who has been an Atheist since age eleven, I like this idea. There's no denying the religious influence in Star Wars; it's not a bad idea at all to play with that. I'm not sure I want something quite as literal as ysalamiri to show up, but I think it's absolutely natural for there to be tension between those who can use the Force and those who can't.

    We saw Luke become a Jedi in Return of the Jedi. He proved to the viewers that the Jedi needed to return, but perhaps in the next movies he has to prove it to the galaxy.
  6. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    That's why I emphasized the "IF" ;)
  7. Havac Former Moderator

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 7
    [IMG]
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  8. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    Lit mods apparently don't hold anything back when they get the itch to use the banhammer.
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  9. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Do you mean the change of Palpatine from corrupt politician, puppet of his own minions (ANH novel) to powerful driving force?
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  10. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Plagueis coming back is definitely still what I would most enjoy seeing myself, yeah.

    I suppose I'm simply torn on whether Lucas would have decided another Sith risked taking away from the story he's already told or risked just feeling like a rehash? After all, the most common criticism usually raised about the Post-ROTJ EU is how your average film purist dislike "more Sith" and have simply grown sick of seeing lightsaber duels, so three more films all about Sith could run the risk of film audiences becoming as fed up of lightsaber duels as we've grown of them in the EU.

    Lightsabers were cool thirty years ago, but will they make kids go "wow" these days? Or is there the danger of them just going "wow..." sarcastically and thinking they've seen it all before in TCW?

    That's what got me thinking about the possibility of him having gone for a totally different "theme", with the PT about separatism, the OT about dictatorship, and the ST being something else, like the secularism idea.

    Not that I still don't fully expect a Sith to be behind whatever threat it is, even if it was an Anti-Force movement. Although, I equally could perhaps see a militant Jedi whose not Sith in name but very much a pseudosith kind of figure, who perhaps would take the Magneto route of saying "screw people", which could allow the story to both explore secularism and religious sectarianism at the same time, which both would give the new series a somewhat more contemporary feel, as opposed to just being more Space Nazis like the OT was.

    Not that I want the ST to turn into some political diatribe like Traviss's work, but Lucax always did seem to think with "big pictures" in the back of his mind even though his work was ultimately pulp.
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Jan 31, 2013
  11. cthugha Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2010
    star 3
    QFT. We're not in the 90s anymore. The fact that we have books driving forward the "main plot" and video games (and in a way even TCW) fitting into "gaps" is unusual enough by today's standards. This is going to change.

    Also, as to what the ST could throw at us to keep things fresh, I'm still hoping for that Droid revolution. I know it might seem too SF-y for Star Wars, but with the Force and its ambiguous relationship to nonliving intelligence there's great potential for the more "mystical" side of SW as well. Add in the fact that two of the most iconic "heroes" of both the OT and the PT were Droids... and maybe have some unreconstructed Imperials unleash the revolution thinking it can help them to restore Imperial rule (but ultimately forcing the two sides to work together against the common threat)... and you've got both the "freshness" and the connection to the OT/PT. [face_thinking]
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  12. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    I'd definitely enjoy a droid revolution, just not sure whether it'd feel too much like the CIS droid army again? That's what got me thinking about some secularist group who wanted to finally see the church and the establishment separated, so to speak, and whose army wouldn't be Sith, nor droids, nor clones, but I suppose some kind of, er... I'm trying to avoid the word "supercommandos". :p

    Although I suppose that'd be just as much a rip off of Halo as droid revolutions would be the PT or BSG, so now that I think about it nothing would be 100% original, so I suppose either story could be just as likely.

    And yeah, the EU really is an anomaly in terms of what drives the "main plot" isn't it? The TOR spin-offs are pretty much what I'm convinced any reboot would be like: completely secondary to anything audio-visual, with more cases like Threat of Peace that got ignored a few months later by whatever the next blockbuster video game or spin-off movie was due to the reality that literature just isn't as popular a medium.

    This is why, assuming the EU remains relatively intact, I can see myself becoming more of an Old Republic Era person, as even if the ST itself is cool, I'm just not sure I see myself being that invested in the form that I foresee most tie-ins taking. As while the PT had loads of second rate crappy video games too (although I stand by my belief that the Episode I video game was a classic :p), video gaming just wasn't as mainstream twelve years ago, whereas this time I can see LucasArts genuinely wanting to put out some good film tie-ins, and there'll inevitably be some kind of television show after TCW ends that'll probably be used to "bridge the gaps" between each film in the way the novels did back for the prequels.

    In a sense, I basically picture it like history in reverse: we won't be seeing TCW retconning the Clone Wars novels; this time TCW will be what we get first, and it'll be the novels that get left to pick up whatever remote threads are leftover.

    Hello more Darth Maul novels!!! :p
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Jan 31, 2013
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  13. cthugha Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2010
    star 3
    Though on the other hand, if the EU (or most of it) remains intact, I will so buy every tie-in book and comic (for a while, at least) just to see how it connects to what we know.


    I don't think so... neither plot-wise or aesthetically, in fact. It makes a huge difference whether you have armies of identical battle-droids who are designated cannon fodder, or the everyday droids everybody relies upon suddenly taking up arms against their masters.

    But I do like the aforcist idea, too... different from atheism though it would be, seeing as Force powers are an empirical reality in the GFFA (not however the underlying ideology, what with the "Will of the Force" and stuff -- a concept that I would definitely like to be exposed to some IU critical scrutiny, btw). It could potentially put the whole "elite" thing that was present in the PT (and in a way also in the OT) into an interesting new light.
  14. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1999
    star 6
    Yeah, I get it, lens flares, hahaha. But honestly? This looks badass.

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  15. krtmd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2012
    star 4
    I don't mind the lens flares myself.

    And wow - I really want to see the Falcon on the big screen again.
  16. Havac Former Moderator

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 7
    Oh god that's awful.

    I mean, I've been basically ignoring all the "lens flare" jokes because I never bothered to see the Star Trek reboot, but that reel is basically one long explanation of why DPs used to do everything possible to avoid lens flare.
  17. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    Those lightsabers could give a person seizures.

    The trailer itself is actually fairly well edited though; I particularly like the music.

    But yeah, I'd prefer they keep lens flares to a minimum in Star Wars; the films really need to go back to the "used universe" feel. Everything in the PT felt much too shiny.
    Last edited by instantdeath, Feb 1, 2013
  18. Lugija Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2009
    star 4
    Didn't JJ agree that in hindsight he used them too much, but he wanted to show how bright the future was. So depending on how they will show the future of Star Wars we could have lots of lens flares or not at all.
  19. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1999
    star 6
    Well the future of SW is still the past, so we're good. :p

    It's absurd to think that he'd actually put flares on the lightsabers, but at this point, if I were him I'd stick one or two in there somewhere just to rile people up. [face_mischief]
  20. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Nah, not lightsabers, he can have the whole screen flare up when Darth Mauldalore the Immortal starts firing off Force Lightning.
  21. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    Am I the only one who would die laughing if Darth Maul turned to be the primary antagonist of t he ST?
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  22. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    It would fit, somehow- from a "merchandising" point of view- Maul was one of the most popular bits of TPM after all.
  23. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    This time he's been so sliced up he's just a floating head: he can kill you with his BRAIN!
    Last edited by instantdeath, Feb 1, 2013
  24. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Please, Lord, if it has to be a resurrected Sith, please make it Plagueis, not more Maul, anything but that. :p

    Give us... the HAND of Darth Vader, yes! The lost hand that disappeared when it and the Glove were shot through time and space in the wormhole! I'll take a floating hand in a jar before Maul!!
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Feb 1, 2013
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  25. Lugija Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2009
    star 4
    The hand of Vader, the head of Dooku and the lower body of Maul... we almost have a whole set! The other arm we can take from Ponda Baba to increase diversity.