Lit Disney Wars: Episode 7 and the EU (Spoiler Thread)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by TypoCelchu, Oct 30, 2012.

  1. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Oh, so lets just run around and kill any remotely intelligent and loyal person the empire has. What kind of completely self-defeating logic is that?

    But okay, lets roll with the "Vader is still young and controlled by the dark side" argument. Why didn't he kill the Emperor then? Why would he pass the opportunity to grab all the power?

    He doesn't play the game ... by blindly following Palpatines lead? What?! That makes absolutely no sense at all! If he was fed up with Palpatines BS he should simply ignore him, not do exactly what he wants.
  2. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    I'm not sure I'd go with the notion that Vader is young and "controlled by the dark side", more that he just really isn't the sharpest tool in the box.... yet!

    That comes later.
  3. blackmyron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    Because Tohm came up with the plan to use the Separatist prisoners to save the Empire, and then the plan to eliminate them in a way that the Empire wouldn't be blamed. Vader was very correct in assuming that Tohm could've been a powerful figure in the Empire within a few years, in my estimation.
  4. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    @Jedi Ben
    Young Vader is entitled to mistakes but what he did there was plain stupid. Idiot level stupid.

    Sure. And what's bad about that? Correct, nothing!

    We shouldn't forget that Tohm decided to side with Vader instead of Trachta. He would've turned out to be an excellent ally.
  5. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    D_P, to me, that's kind of the point but I'll be better able to discuss with you in a few weeks when I have my copy of the Ghost Prison HC!
  6. mnjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 1
    No wheels eh? [IMG] Says hello.
    Last edited by mnjedi, Mar 7, 2013
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  7. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    star 6
    Those are...um...vestigial.

    Alternative explanation: Tohm's injuries were a blatant reminder of what had become of Vader's own body under the armor, and his just carrying on without prosthetics through sheer strength of character only magnified the insult.
    Last edited by CooperTFN, Mar 7, 2013
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  8. blackmyron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    Sith don't ally. Or surf, probably. He would've been better off allying with Trachta, who actually displayed some form of honor.
    But seriously, Tohm betrays a group of people for little reason, and got the same in return. Pick better role models in your next life, Tohm.
    Last edited by blackmyron, Mar 7, 2013
  9. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    I just reread the relevant pages and nothing seems to imply that Vaders deed was meant to show his foolishness as some of you claim. Quite the opposite, in fact. His poses were those of power and triumph.

    I've also seen nothing that would imply that Vader has problems with Tohms injuries. That would be an interesting psychological reason - especially so close after ROTS - but again, nothing there.

    Bah, I better just forget about it. I probably shouldn't care about Tohm. The author apparently didn't care about him either because he gave him a death that makes no sense. Could have had him shot by a former classmate but no...
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Mar 7, 2013
  10. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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  11. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    If I don't like a plot twist I should just pretend it was all different?
  12. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    He's not blindly following Palpatine's lead. It's said in the Bounty Hunter Wars that Palpatine deliberately puts people like Xizor and, presumably, Mara and the other Hands against Vader in order to strengthen him. Palpatine's constantly throwing arbitrary tests at him. In this case, Palpatine's trying to groom Vader into more than a blunt instrument. He needs to be a political weapon as much as anything else. Tohm is there to provide Vader with competition. Vader chooses to completely ignore this by killing the competition outright. Eventually, he learns that this can't be a permanent solution. Remember, at this point Vader doesn't care about the Empire at all (I'm not convinced he ever truly cares about the Empire, or at least an Empire not under his control). He just cares about what he can learn about the dark side from Palpatine, which is why I would assume he didn't kill Palpatine at this point.

    More than anything else, Tohm's murder was Vader showing Palpatine that he's not willing to be a pawn. That he's not willing to be just another servant, but the servant. That, whether he wants it to be or not, the Rule of Two is still in place.

    And that would have been an anti-climactic and thoroughly unfitting end to the story. Ghost Prison was designed as a standalone arc, not as an ongoing. The story must have a consistent theme. Tohm is the narrative device used in Ghost Prison, but he is not the main character. Vader is. Having this narrative device dealt with in a way unrelated to Vader would only undermine the arc as a whole.

    The goal here wasn't to create a new ongoing character. It was to create a different lens in which to view a familiar character.
    Last edited by instantdeath, Mar 7, 2013
  13. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    I think it was relatively ambiguous. Enough that it doesn't bother me, anyway.
    Last edited by CooperTFN, Mar 7, 2013
  14. darthzac14 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 3
    The kind of person you love so much you'd kidnap and accidentally murder
  15. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

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    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    I didn't know Harry Plinkett posted here!
  16. Dawud786 Force Ghost

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    Dec 28, 2006
    star 4
  17. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Do you mind? We're talking about Ghost Prison right now.
  18. darthcaedus1138 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2007
    star 5
    Take it to the Darth Vader and the Ghost Prison thread, Dawud.
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  19. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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  20. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    Why not simply make every thread a Ghost Prison thread? Start with the Cad Bane thread.
  21. darthcaedus1138 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2007
    star 5
    I think every thread title should end with -Does it contradict the EU?
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  22. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    If you could own any pet in the SW universe... does it contradict the EU?
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  23. Dawud786 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2006
    star 4
  24. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    I JUST WANTED HER TO STOP MAKING NOISE, I'M SORRY, OKAY?!

    Haven't read Ghost Prison. But wheels do contradict the EU if George says there are no wheels. With that statement, the wheels on the tank thingies in ROTS are gone *poof* from canon. Expect another special wheel-less edition. Might be kinda hard with the chase scene with Grevious. Maybe he'll just run really really fast.
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Mar 7, 2013
  25. Dawud786 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2006
    star 4
    He said the cars don't have wheels. Not that wheels don't exist... the tanks and Grievous' wheelbike would have to be special editioned.