Lit A/V The Force Awakens and the EU [TAGGED spoilers.]

oh man

 

Indeed I am, the Disney franchise, not that bizarre creepy Star Wars thing you posted.

 

I knew going into it that they weren't going to follow the Encyclopedia, and I was fine with that. But some of flaws were so egregious I really couldn't stand it. The Tleilaxu being known as religious fanatics when it was a major plot point that they had kept this a secret for uncounted millennia in Dune Heretics was probably the worst.

 

I found the Baron's weight condition being caused by a disease inflicted on him by Mohiam, a bit more objectionable.

 

Mind you even the later Frank Herbert stuff was very much out there but yep it was at least always way better written.

 

I recently did a reread of all the Anderson Dune prequels and interquels followed by all the Frank Dune novels, followed by the Anderson sequels - and the difference in writing style could be a little jarring.

 

Also, I can't buy that their "conclusion" to the Dune Saga was in any way based upon the Secret Notes of Frank Herbert that his son found somewhere. If that sounds like I'm calling him a liar... well, I guess I am.

 

So I have to assume that Star Wars is going to return to a more simplified way of storytelling, e.g. midi-chlorians are never going to be mentioned, which I think most people will say is a good thing. However, there's also stuff like the Cosmic and Living Force which first saw mention in the prequels and TCW.

Do most fans view these negatively? I know people make the argument that midi-chlorians demystify the Force, however I would actually make an argument to the opposite effect when coupled with the Cosmic and Living Force as was done in "Voices" and "Destiny." I think the popular view of the Force without these subtleties and nuances and without emphasis on anything apart from its duality for the purpose of conflict in the plot isn't particularly mystical or interesting. This is sort of the thematic conflict of the NJO that is present from the start through Anakin vs. Jacen, so I guess a way of putting it is that I think it's a good possibility that Star Wars is going to "return" to this Anakin worldview. Of course, I'd argue it was always more complex than popularly recognized.

 

For the average film go'er, I always figured stuff like Qui-Gon talking about the Living Force just sounded like a flowery way of talking about the Force.

If someone goes saying the phrase Cosmic Force, I'd expect the average person isn't going to take much notice of that either.

I can't see them wanting to go into any detail in a film, as if they get into some complicated discussion of the Force I can see half the audience falling asleep.

 

Or far more likely, especially since everything else about weird force experiments supposedly involved is now non-canon as well, she just does not want to talk about what really happened.

 

Weird Force experiments might not be canon, but her visiting Mortis, "stuff" happening behind closed doors with this giant shape-shifting black and red gargoyle, and her returning home, and not remembering any of it, that sorta weird Force explanation would still be canon.

 

"The Son becomes the father, and the father, the son."

Maybe I'm thinking too much of the Superman movie.

 

What did you think of it in the eponymous The Unifying Force?

Well, some people apparently took Traitor and Vergere to be espousing Subjective Idealism.

 

That's exactly how the story goes about how Samuel Johnson rebutted Bishop Berkeley's thesis that all things are immaterial - he kicked a rock.

 

There's a lot of discussion about the Unifying Force in it, which is the old name for the Cosmic Force.*

Quoting Wikipedia: "Subjective idealism, or empirical idealism, is the monistic metaphysical doctrine that only minds and mental contents exist. It entails and is generally identified or associated with immaterialism, the doctrine that material things do not exist." Maybe no one actually applies that to Traitor and I'm just making that up and I'm the only person making the connection given the idea of monism through complimentary opposites which sees repetition as well as Vergere's epistemological insistence that everything she says is a lie, but I suppose that's more bordering on solipsism.

But I don't take that interpretation.

*A history: Lucas mentions the Living Force and the Cosmic Force in The Making of Episode I, but the novelization of Episode I by Terry Brooks calls it the Unifying Force, which is the primary name it is given in Expanded Universe novels with the sole exception of Michael Reaves whom uses the name Cosmic Force in his novels. Since this is the name used in TCW, I've fallen into the habit of using it, but I prefer the Unifying Force TBH.

 

"Everything I tell you is a lie"

 

"All the answers fall short of the truth."

"Very good!" Vergere clapped her hands and bounced upright like a spring-loaded puppet. "Very good, Jacen Solo. Questions are more true than answers: this is the beginning of wisdom."

 

How so? "Everything I tell you is a lie" is another way of saying "All answers fall short of the truth." Any answer Vergere gives Jacen falls short of the truth, and thus is a lie.

 

The idea may be to encourage readers not to take everything Vergere says at face value - but to examine it for themselves.