Lit A/V The Force Awakens and the EU [TAGGED spoilers.]

He "complained that he wasn't allowed to reach his potential"? Who was he to decide what his "potential" was in the face of those wiser, more experienced, more mature, and less self-centered than he was?

That's what made him an ass--thinking that the entire Order was supposed to kiss his, simply because of his midichlorian count.

They brought him out of a terrible situation and offered him opportunity, a chance to make a difference--and he still acted like they owed him something.

The Jedi did nothing wrong, as not allowing Anakin to get married and remain in the Order, and/or not blowing sunshine up Anakin's ass, was not wrong.

They owed him nothing, especially not the rank of Master.

I'd have a harder time answering the question "How was Anakin not an ass?" But then again, I have little tolerance for people who think the world owes them accolades just for existing.

The last part of ROTS involved Anakin agreeing to commit mass murder because his nightmares were more important than the lives of his fellow Jedi. He demonstrated himself to be a gullible, self-centered *******.

The last part of ROTJ involved Luke not being willing to join the Dark Side and destroy the galaxy just to save a person or people that he personally cared about. He succeeded where his father failed.

 

Ghost : LOL, the end of ROTJ hasn't changed.

And I have sympathy for the character as far as spending his early childhood as a slave, being pressured (either outside pressure or that he put on himself) over that asinine prophecy, and yes, wanting recognition.

Plus I enjoy his humor when it does show up, which is more often in TCW.

What I take issue with in these arguments is the deflection of blame for Anakin's behavior on people other than Anakin.

What Anakin felt wasn't necessarily wrong. Feelings aren't right or wrong, they just are. But he was no more justified in acting on those feelings the way he did than anyone who committed such crimes in real life would be.

And regardless of how he felt about the Jedi, his behavior was still his choice and he is responsible for it. The end.

Palpatine enabled him, but Anakin always had choices, and the Jedi cannot be blamed for decisions made by a grown man in their group.

DigitalMessiah : IIRC there was much amusement over Han knocking his mother-in-law in the sarlacc.

 

Anakin didn't discuss Shmi's death with Obi-Wan because he did not want to face the consequences of what he did afterwards. I'll agree with you that Anakin felt guilty but that's hardly the Jedi's fault.

I've seen a LOT of discussion about how Padme was wrong not to report Anakin to the Council herself, and I agree only to a point; I think she should have encouraged Anakin to turn himself in and take responsibility for his behavior.

And that control is what the Jedi taught. It is a misconception brought about by our westernized, romantic, "emotions are just awesome and make the world go round" society that the Jedi were not allowed to feel.

We see Obi-Wan, Yoda and Mace feeling affection, pain and yes, anger. But unlike Anakin, they didn't decide their feelings were important enough to dictate policy or turn events.

Anakin was reckless and should have been called on it. I thought jumping out of the speeder was funny but I'm not his parent figure.

What Obi-Wan did was not "calling him on his every fault," it was being the adult, and it was not being indulgent.

Which brings me to my next point.

Everyone enjoys having sunshine blown up their asses. But part of being an adult is recognizing that the people who do that are often not the ones who care about you the most or have your best interests in mind.

Indulgence is not love.

Anakin did not want to grow up or consider anyone's perspective other than his own.

(And I think we need to relate this back to Episode 7. I hope the new Order is not set up to send the message that the old Order was just wrong.)

 

Yes, Luke acted through love.

Not attachment, which is selfish, and the opposite of love.

And Obi-Wan was supposed to do what exactly? Let Anakin kill him?

So just to clarify--you believe that people should allow their feelings to dictate their behavior? That making decisions based on rational thought and logic rather than emotion is somehow bad?

The Jedi were correct to act using reason. There are multiple examples in our world of how decision-making based on emotions has had disastrous consequences. See: pretty much every war that has ever been fought, all started because someone or a few someone got angry and acted on it.

OK, I don't know if you've got some personal vendetta against an authority figure in your life and it's none of my business, but you're not even trying here.

Yeah, see what I just said.

Parents/guardians acting on what's best for you in the long run is a hell of a lot more important than how you feel about that right now.

A lot of children don't understand that, hence the tantrums, but Anakin was no longer a child.

As I just said...the long-term shaping of a person takes precedent over immediate hurt feelings and disappointment.

The overall good of society also takes greater precedent over the hurt feelings and disappointment of one person.

Using your argument...parents should allow their kids to eat candy whenever they want, buy them whatever they want and never make them go to bed. Because feelings are important and they don't want to eat vegetables, learn to live within a budget or put away their video games and go to bed.

I actually agree with your last statement. Palpatine would have eliminated the Jedi without Anakin's help.

But Anakin was shouting at the Jedi to spoil Anakin rotten, nothing more.

And I shake my head at the idea that they were obligated to do so, just as I would shake my head at a murderer in our world who claims he became a murderer because his parents made him eat his spinach and would not buy him a new Playstation.

We can't blame the parents in that situation either.

I expect ST Luke to teach his initiates that sacrifice to the greater good is more important than personal feelings. And that acting on anger is hate...which is of the Dark Side.

 

The Jedi weren't self-centered and looking out for themselves? I largely agree with the general sentiments a_g is posting about learning self-control and the dangers of getting over-emotional but...

I. The OJO was corrupt as hell.

II. They were also stupid. They knew Anakin was taken at a much older age. They knew from the start that he's subject to emotions. Yet they try the same pablum they use on everybody else: conceal, don't feel. But the problem was that Anakin DID feel, he already had an emotional issue. Instead of trying to deal with it, the Jedi pretended it didn't exist.