Lit Disney Wars: Episode 7 and the EU (Spoiler Thread)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by TypoCelchu, Oct 30, 2012.

  1. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    To show my ignorance of the whole WEG side of Star Wars, I actually wasn't aware there was story telling involved, outside the Adventure Journal (which, for the most part, I really enjoy), and the Adventure Books (though even then, I'm not sure if they're set up with prose, or like game scenarios). Thought it was mostly things like world building (err, galaxy building), ship specifications, a bit of history, stats, and so on (this last one I know because a lot of people asked for stats in the AJ short stories). All things that sound interesting, of course, but I wasn't sure how useful I'd find it.

    The way you put it, though, does make me want to look into it; if nothing else, Dark Empire making sense sounds divine (still don't understand what the hell happened between TTT and DE). One thing I will say about the Adventure Journal is that, even in the bad stories, the galaxy has never felt more alive.

    Now that I have your attention, I have to ask something that I wanted to know back when I was considering digging into the WEG material, but couldn't find an answer for; is the Thrawn Trilogy sourcebook literally a compilation of the three individual source books of the three books of the trilogy, or is it a whole new book based on the trilogy as a whole? In other words, is there any point at all to getting the Heir to the Empire SB and the TTTSB?
  2. blackmyron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    There are some minor differences between the individual sourcebooks and the compilation, but in all honesty - no, your best bet is just to get the TTTSB.
  3. Corran1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 1
    I think that there is a major difference between Flash Gordon and Star Wars. Flash Gordon was a popular comic series in the 1930s, had three serialized adventures, some toys, and a couple short books. There was also a radio drama for a few years. That's all. From there it only continued as a weekly cartoon strip until it had a reboot in 79 with a new cartoon series and film in 1980. Around this time marvel also produced a short Flash Gordon series of comics. There was again a small line of toys corresponding to the cartoon series. There was another attempt to revive the franchise in the 1990s with an "updated" Flash Gordon story. The series ultimately failed, as did the Sci Fi channel's attempt at a live action reboot.

    This does not correspond to the Star Wars franchise which has had six films, several more announced, an immensely successful cartoon series, more merchandise made and sold than any other franchise, several scholarly works written on Star Wars as both a film and cultural phenomenon, nearly 150 adult novels (many of which are NY Times best sellers), hundreds of comic books and young adult/children's books, as well as several popular video games. Star Wars is a far bigger phenomenon than Flash Gordon or Buck Rogers ever were.

    You never saw Flash Gordon conventions with costumes, documentaries, extensive toy collections, etc. Star Wars and Star Trek will last much longer than did any previous popular sci-fi series.
  4. Corran1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 1
    I think that novels will continue to exist. Especially novels like Plageuis, and the upcoming Kenobi book. In other-words, they will serve to fill in some background information which won't be shown in the films. And if the 30-40 year gap between trilogies is correct, there is plenty of space to tell stories. This won't all be shown in films. Look at how much they manage to squeeze into the 3 year period of the Clone Wars.
  5. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    How much EU literature survives ultimately depends on how successful it is, I guess. @Jedi_Ben has been saying since Legacy that companies only listen when it hurts their pocket, so it just depends how things sell. If enough people consistently buy it, they'll keep churning it out exactly like they do now, reboot or no reboot; whereas if less buy it obsessively after a reboot, they might just stick to more targeted spin off adventure stories, without worrying about continuity as much -- think The Force Unleashed.

    I imagine it'll be a bit like the recent Dark Horse series, I suppose. The negative fallout after Legacy and KOTOR's cancellations is still noticeable today, with nothing reaching those sales figures, and things like Knight Errant getting axed as Dark Horse try new series-after-new series to find another mainstream hit. So if they decide on a reboot, I can picture a similar "testing the waters" period while they try and work out the best way forward, what sells, whether books are even that profitable these days compared to new films, toys, video games, etc.

    Which, in all honestly, would not surprise me. New spin off movies, complete with toys, token novelisation, video game adaptation, would probably make much more money and reach a much bigger audience than the niche novel ongoing continuity market, and if they plan to keep doing new films, then the films themselves will keep the brand alive without needing the obsessives like us to keep it afloat.

    Although, admittedly, I'm not getting my hopes up that they'll ever actually make a tenth film... I'll believe it when I see it. Lucas talked about sequels, then didn't; so I won't be surprised if "We'll make Darth Vader films after Episode 9!!! 8-}" ends up just being a forgotten dream if Disney acquire something bigger than Star Wars by then. (Nor would I be surprised if they just end up deciding to remake the movies if they find spin-off adventures aren't as successful. Look at Spiderman... we got a remake in less than a decade, not a fourth film.)
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Nov 28, 2012
  6. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    I have this 'reader' that tells me how completely non- nerds view things, and that's my mom. She couldn't care less about SW, and she'll never understand how her only daughter got corrupted by the world to ever like such a thing. But even she's admitted that SW is something special when it comes to magnitude and ability to stand the test of time. She might know the name Flash Gordon but would remember it only because she'd find it silly. And I bet my hat she's never registered Buck Rogers even though I had a much loved cartoon flaoting in my room for years.
  7. DarkEagle Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2009
    star 4
    News

    Maybe a Marvel-style movie plan, with the "Episodes" focusing on the Skywalker-Solo group and side movies for "spin-offs"
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  8. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    a little analysis I did for whoever finds it worth reading:

    The role of the post-ROTJ EU so far and in light of setting up the Sequels:
    -From Rebellion to Republic reborn:
    ---Taking back the galaxy and Coruscant (achieved)
    ---Defeating the last Imperial Holdouts (achieved: though Empire lives on as Remnant due to peace treaty!)
    ---Reestablishing order and peace (achieved: though many follow up conflicts and shisms)
    -Reformation of the Jedi in Balance and Harmony:
    ---Collecting Lore (achieved)
    ---Finding new Apprentices (achieved)
    ---Founding a new Jedi Order (achieved)
    -Passing the Torch
    ---Children born to the heroes of old and raised (achieved)
    ---the new government surviving initial challenges (achieved though with reformations)
    ---the galaxy reuniting happily ever after (achieved but not for long)

    former Sequel plots the EU already did...
    -Second Rise of the Empire
    ---Thrawn uniting the Warlords
    ---Fate of Luke's cut off hand: Luuke Clone
    ---Palpatines return from the Dead as a clone
    ---Dark Luke
    -Rise of the Jedi
    ---"There is another Skywalker" Leia becoming a Jedi
    ---The SkySolochildren becoming Jedi
    ---A SkySolochild falls to the Dark Side
    ---Vader's Force Ghost
    ---Luke finding a wife
    -Survival and Reformation of Evil/Sith
    ---A member of the new Jedi Order/SkySolo child falls
    ---Secret Apprentice of Vader/Palpatine surviving to continue
    ---Force Mystery/Choosen One Prophecy in relation to Mortis and postROTJ Sith survival: TCW/FOTJ etc.
    ---NJO: Alien invasion as next big thing with The Unifying Force as Force mystery revelation

    so which of these might the sequels attempt to do different, or would they combine them all into one multifacetted trilogy? I still believe the EU stays mostly as it is against all panic voodoo around online. So they will be set after all of this and feature a different yet related plot. though.. what are your predictions?

    NO panic or death of EU posts please.. I will not comment on those. I want creative and progressive discussion of this.
  9. cthugha Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2010
    star 3
    My guess is that we'll either get an Empire that's still strong, or some other state-like entity, fighting the New Republic in a (mostly) evenly-balanced war.

    Because on a greater political scale, we've had a good government being corrupted from within, and an evil government being brought down by insurgents. What we haven't had yet, at least not as the basic plot of a trilogy of movies, is two governments of roughly equal strength facing off against each other. (The Clone Wars don't count IMO because they mostly happen between movies, and the basic plot of the PT is the downfall of the Republic, not the war against the Separatists.)

    So we could have some sort of Cold War movies, complete with all the moral and political issues something like that might bring up -- also, former Rebels trying to keep the moral high ground while facing the inevitably cruel choices a full-scale war against a ruthless enemy entails -- a New Jedi Order refusing to repeat the mistakes of the OJO in being drawn into the war, instead, I don't know, maybe taking on the metaphysical force that keeps the war going behind the scenes or whatever...

    I'll admit that most of the above is probably light-years beside the mark. But we do need a different basic constellation of power, one that still allows for large-scale conflict (because they're not going to make the plot of the long-awaited OMG STAR WARS SEQUEL TRILOGY about Jedi kids outsmarting pirates or something) while neither, erm, "invalidating" the Rebel victory seen in RotJ nor mirroring the OT or PT too closely.
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  10. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    cold war is a nice idea, though I hoped for more of a War against an invisible foe approach... like terrorism, with no clear boarders but the enemy striking from within.
  11. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    The Cold War scenario was basically done during LotF, although the later part of the arc focused more on Jacen's power-grab and fall.

    So who/what would be a significant, and audience-believable, threat to the Republic and the Jedi; an enemy that would require some Lightsaber fighting to take place (because that's Star Wars' trademark, and popular, feature)?

    Sith have been rather overdone just recently - so probably not them.

    Mandos, perhaps? Either a large rogue group or their TCW pacifism was nothing more than a sham?

    Something entirely new from the Unknown Regions -- backtracking a lost 'sleeper ship'?
  12. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    Unknown Regions I doubt, that would come close to "Alien Invasion" theme that NJO covered or before it already Marvel and Truce of Bakura even.

    Mandos as enemy would be fun, but unbelievable I think.. we need a good reason and ties to the forceusing enemies. and mandos as their pawns again would suck. but a huge nonforcesensitive group as enemies would rock. we need more scoundrels after all ;)

    I'd love the Hutts as enemies.. and a true end to slavery and such as FOTJ tried and ultimately left open ended. though, with Hutts as enemies we'd have ties to Prequels and OT in using Rotta as Jabbas son as leader of the Hutts then.. they could even have Mandos on the Hutt side hired, if Fett is no longer their leader.Hutt Space also is the single big entity that is not really in the Galactic Alliance despite parttime alliances with it or against it during wars. The Empire, so far, is benevolent in the GA fold even if separate, it is negeltable for the Sequels, as is Hapes.

    Hutts are all over the galaxy... with smugglers, bounty hunters, business and illegal activities... they are the best main enemy for fleet action and major battles despite it starting with terrorism that leads to discoveries that the Hutts funded/initiated it.. and then later it leads to all out war. the Force comes in when Jedi try to help at first and some fall.. or have divided loyalities due to innocents on both sides etc. a more Mortis-esque Force approach with creation and destruction instead of good and evil, heroes on both sides literally.

    I know LOTF and FOTJ tried that but.. someone needs to do it better. decades thereafter.
  13. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    Shapeshifters - saw only one in AotC, there are probably other species out there. They could be an 'invisible enemy' with one or more orchastrating events and stirring up trouble here and there - even pretending to be Hutts!
  14. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    shapeshifters would rock, but them are more for other scifi universes I think. cool though, but I think SW needs something unique not explored in depth in other franchises.

    Star Trek had them in the Dominion War already
  15. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Keep in mind the Sith have not been seen since 2004.

    Remember the majority of the audience won't be familiar with anything since ROTS, so anything "we" now find a rehash won't be the case for Joe Average. And if more Sith proved popular for EU nerds -- as it did for KOTOR and Legacy -- then you can bet money on Disney concluding it'll also work for the mass market.

    The EU would sure as hell benefit from "less is more" after all the Sith we've had in recent years, but the majority of film viewers won't even have had their first taste of a Sith Order. They're all still living in a world where there are just two.
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Nov 28, 2012
  16. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Oh yes, more Sith! The net would explode in an unholy cacophony of outraged SW fandom!
  17. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    What I actually wouldn't be surprised by would be Nightsisters.

    The word "Sith" means little to a lot of casual film fans -- nobody in my family is likely to remember if I asked them what the opposite of a Jedi was -- so they could easily go with another Bad Jedi group that weren't called Sith Lords but served the same role, and Nightsisters are unique enough that it injects something that feels "different" and won't have casual fans thinking "Boring. I've seen this before."

    I also can't really think of many big franchises in recent years with anything similar... Harry Potter had the Death Eaters, but they were never major roles in the films: it was always about Voldemort, with very little of the creepy evil magick sort of stuff that people's kids will have recently seen in TCW.

    The closest I can think of is LOTR... but magic is rarely seen in that either. I'm having to wind back to the 80s to really remember any major blockbusters that made evil sorcery a key plot element.
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Nov 28, 2012
  18. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    Do they use Lightsabers though, Zorr? I'm not familiar with the TCW version.
  19. Brenapp Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 2
    If I can be brutally honest, if the new films negate everything after ROTJ in the EU, then I probably won't have any part of it.
  20. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    I can definitely see this. TCW has taken the idea and run with it, and admittedly, they've done some neat stuff. The whole concept of the Nightsister idea would probably draw in a lot of viewers -- the films could use a badass female. Or er, several thousand badass females. And if Katie Lucas is still onboard the Lucasfilm part of the project in the future, there's even more of a chance that this would happen.

    They use all sorts of weapons... mostly those vibro/"energy" types:


    [IMG]
    Last edited by Barriss_Coffee, Nov 28, 2012
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  21. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Well, Ventress and Savage do, albeit it was the Sith who taught them that -- but that's me being an EU nerd and recognising the distinction. It wouldn't take a big step for Disney to just go: evil wizards always use them, even if we never see Talzin ignite one.

    Like Palpatine in ROTJ, basically.

    Come to think of it, it ties back into Maul too, so would be linked to TPM, making Evil Zabrak Witch Dude or Dudette something a casual film purist wouldn't be unfamiliar with. And if they reaaaaally wanted to go down the sorcery route, a group like the Nightsisters could easily be tied into the Evil Emperor's resurrection, too.

    I'm pretty much thinking in predictable tropes here.
    Yay! For a second there I was starting to worry I was just running my mouth and talking claptrap. :p
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Nov 28, 2012
  22. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    Nightsisters are cool and I love them since COPL... but if Nightsisters in Sequels, then EU ones, not TCW abomination of halfZabrak... NOOOOOOO that'd screw the EU for sure.


    I still think having Rotta the Hutt turn out to be an evil version of Blotus as Chancellor Hutt is better.
    Last edited by CeiranHarmony, Nov 28, 2012
  23. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    But, but Zorr, the prophecy said Anakin would destroy evil for-evah!

    If the ST does nothing else but take a royal dump on the whole balance of the Force nonsense, I could be happy with that.
  24. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    Might be cool - definitely a bit different. Rancors optional?
  25. Brenapp Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 2
    The Nightsisters could work as adversaries.....but I'd prefer it if they worked in a few subtle acknowledgements to The Courtship of Princess Leia.