Chic, IL Dissecting Episode III (or Whoops there went my childhood)

good question Dave,
and your posts above, concerning all that R2D2 action
got me thinking of the original STAR WARs...(ANH excerpts below)

and so, why doesn't Obi-Wan remember R2?

or am I missing something.....

Ed

---------------------------------------------------



LUKE: Then the droid does belong to you.



BEN: Don't seem to remember ever owning a droid. Very interesting...


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Artoo makes beeping sounds.



BEN: Now, let's see if we can't figure out what you are, my little

friend. And where you come from.

..

 

"I haven't heard anyone complain about this yet but my biggest problem with RotS is with the entire hand-off of Luke from Obi-Wan to Owen and Beru scene. "

You aren't alone Doc. I really disliked that scene too. It was a nice homage to ANH but they give this kid away with zero dialogue? That is one of the most important moments in the series IMO. It could have been a very touching moment. Instead it felt like they shoved the thing out the door.

 

it did underscore the bitterness that probably exists between owen and obi-wan, considering he's basically dealing with the jedi turning his stepbrother into an evil sith.

 

SNIPPED: The Heroes are brought before Grievous on the bridge of the ship but manage to escape. After some close-quarters melee with Grievous' henchmen Grievous himself escapes, ejecting all of the escape pods while the ship careens towards the planet surface. Amazingly, Anakin lands what's left of the vessel.

62 EXT. BRIDGE-TRADE FEDERATION CRUISER

OBI-WAN, ANAKIN PALPATINE, and ARTOO are captured by GENERAL GRIEVOUS. They stand before the ALIEN DROID GENERAL.

GENERAL GRIEVOUS: Oh yes the Negotiator General Kenobi,. We've been waiting for you.

A BATTLE DROID walks to GENERAL GRIEVOUS and hands him the JEDI'S lightsabers. The General rudely snatches them from its hand.

BATTLE DROID: You're Welcome.

GENERAL GREVOUS (continuing): That wasn't much of a rescue.

GENERAL GRIEVOUS: And Anakin Skywalker ... I was expecting someone with your reputation to be a little older.

ANAKIN: General Grievous . . . . You're shorter than I expected.

GENERAL GRIEVOUS: Ahhhh, Jedi scum . . .

OBI-WAN: Anakin, try not to upset him. We have a job to do.

GENERAL GRIEVOUS: Your lightsabers will make a fine addition to my collection.

OBI-WAN: Not this time. And this time you won't escape.

ANAKIN: Artoo.

ARTOO creates a distraction by extending all his arms, shooting out electrical pulses, and bouncing around.
OBI-WAN, hands restrained with electrobonds, spins around, reaches out and, using the Force, yanks his lightsaber out of the General's hand, ignites it, and cuts his bonds. He continues to spin around and cuts Anakin free.

GENERAL GRIEVOUS: Crush them! Make them suffer!

ANAKIN uses the Force to yank his lightsaber out of the General's hand.

The DROIDS that surround them begin to FIRE. OBI-WAN and ANAKIN jump into the line of fire. The bridge degenerates into chaos. OBI-WAN and ANAKIN are locked in a pitched battle between electro staffs and laser swords with GENERAL GRIEVOUS's TWO BODYGUARDS.

CHANCELLOR PALPATINE is taken away by two BATTLE DROIDS. GENERAL GRIEVOUS walks around the bridge directing the BATTLE DROIDS.

GENERAL GRIEVOUS: Stay and watch your stations.

OBI-WAN fights one of General Grievous's BODYGUARDS. The BODYGUARD carries an electrified staff about five feet long. When the laser sword hits it, electrical bolts fly everywhere and surround the laser sword. OBI-WAN is unable to cut the staff. The Jedi gets whacked pretty good a couple of times and is knocked halfway across the bridge.
OBI-WAN pulls himself together and attacks again, cutting off the DROID BODYGUARD'S head. The DROID BODYGUARD keeps attacking. ANAKIN struggles to defend himself against the other manic DROID BODYGUARD. He cuts the DROID BODYGUARD in half. TWO BATTLE DROIDS try to take the CHANCELLOR away.
ANAKIN follows them down the hallway and cuts them down, rescuing the Chancellor.
OBI-WAN finishes off the headless BODYGUARD. It crumbles to the floor in pieces.

GENERAL GRIEVOUS (to the Navigating Battle Droids): Stay on course . . . Don't bother with them. Keep the ship in orbit.

OBI-WAN and ANAKIN destroy the remaining DROIDS. GENERAL GRIEVOUS retrieves one of the BODYGUARD'S staffs and faces OBI-WAN. ANAKIN leaps over a console and lands behind GENERAL GRIEVOUS.

GENERAL GRIEVOUS: You lose, General Kenobi.

OBI-WAN tries to get at GENERAL GRIEVOUS. ANAKIN runs at the General from the opposing side. GENERAL GRIEVOUS turns and throws his electrified staff at the window. It breaks, causing chaos as everything that is not nailed down is sucked into space. GENERAL GRIEVOUS is the first one sucked out into space. He fires a cable from his arm that attaches to the ship. He swings in and lands firmly on the side of the ship.
OBI-WAN, ANAKIN, and PALPATINE hold on for dear life. A blast shield closes around where the window used to be.

ALARMS SOUND as the giant spacecraft begins to list and fall out of orbit.

64 EXT. HULL-TRADE FEDERATION CRUISER-SPACE

GENERAL GRIEVOUS detaches his cable and crawls along the exte

 

Grievous is pretty much the Bond "every-villian". Other than that, just more cool special effects (fine with me). This is generally the end of where many people say the coolness of this movie ended. Not sure if I agree with that, but it was definitely a very cool section.

Bosh
The only thing the crash lacked was Lt. Data yelling "$H!+!!"

 

i agree that you shouldn't need a novel, cartoon, comic book, etc to get the most out of a star wars movie. at the same time, i don't really feel like you need to know why grievous is coughing--it's enough to know that he is. it's part of his character. it can fail or succeed on its own merits, and knowing why he does it is just EU claptrap you can choose to either appreciate or not.

 

ok, this seems to be another annoying loose end in ROTS,

this quote from Obi-wan in RTOJ

BEN (continuing his narrative)

When your father left, he didn't know your

mother was pregnant. Your mother and I knew

he would find out eventually, but we wanted

to keep you both as safe as possible, for as

long as possible. So I took you to live with

my brother Owen on Tatooine... and your mother

took Leia to live as the daughter of Senator

Organa, on Alderaan.

I got this from a script off the internet, and will be going home to night,
and look at this section again.......yikes, how many more like this are there,
and if so, no wonder I heard so many passionate opinions at Hollywood Blvd last Sat.

Ed

edit---ok, have doubled checked, my two versions of this film and do NOT find much
of the above......my source for this was something called,

SECOND DRAFT - DECEMBER 19, 1982

pm _me if you want the links for these OT scripts.

 

SNIPPED: After some brotherly banter between Ani & Obi; Ani, Palpy & R2 are greeted by a Republic entourage including Bail Organa & Mace Windu. After a moment Anakin excuses himself to meet secretly with Padme who reveals that she is preggers.

GREEN = Scripted
SILVER = Cut from final version of the movie
RED = Not in script but added to final version of the movie

69 EXT. CORUSCANT-SENATE OFFICE BUILDING-LANDING PLATFORM-LATE AFTERNOON

The small Jedi Shuttle carrying PALPATINE and the JEDI arrives at the landing platform. There are a DOZEN SENATORS, including BAIL ORGANA, JAR JAR BINKS, and C-3PO, waiting for them. PALPATINE, R2-D2, and ANAKIN get out. OBI-WAN and MACE stay in the doorway of the Jedi Shuttle.

ANAKIN: (to Obi-Wan) Are you coming, Master?

OBI-WAN: Oh no. I'm not brave enough for politics. I have to report to the Council. Besides, someone needs to be the poster boy.

ANAKIN: Hold on, this whole operation was your idea.

You planned it. You led the rescue operation. You have to be the one to take the bows this time.

OBI-WAN: Sorry, old friend. Let us not forget that you rescued me from the Buzz Droids. And you killed Count Dooku. And you rescued the Chancellor, carrying me unconscious on your back, and you managed to land that bucket of bolts safely . . .

ANAKIN: All because of your training, Master. You deserve all those speeches of your greatness.

OBI-WAN: . . . the endless speeches . . . Anakin, let's be fair. Today, you are the hero and you deserve your glorious day with the politicians.

ANAKIN: All right. But you owe me . . . and not for saving your skin for the tenth time . . .

OBI-WAN: Ninth time . . . that business on Cato Nemoidia doesn't count. I'll see you at the briefing.

ANAKIN smiles and walks away from OBI-WAN.
The CHANCELLOR and his entourage approach MACE.

MACE WlNDU: Chancellor Palpatine, what a welcome sight! Are you all right?

PALPATINE: Yes, thanks to your two Jedi Knights. They killed Count Dooku, but General Grievous has escaped once again.

MACE WlNDU: General Grievous will run and hide as he always does. He is a coward.

PALPATINE: That maybe true, but with Count Dooku dead, he is the leader of the Droid Army, and I assure you, the Senate will vote to continue the war as long as Grievous is alive.

MACE WlNDU: Then the Jedi Council will make finding Grievous our highest priority.

BAIL, ANAKIN, and the crowd walk away from the platform toward the Senate Building Grand Hallway. Jar Jar bumps into ORN FREE TAA.

ORN FREE TAA: Watch It!

JAR JAR BINKS: 'Scuse Me.

BAIL ORGANA: Skywalker, the Republic cannot praise you enough.

ANAKIN and BAIL ORGANA, walking in the hallway.

ANAKIN: Thank you, Senator Organa. The kidnapping was a bold move by the Separatists, but it was a mistake that Obi-Wan and I were able to take advantage of.

ARTOO and THREEPIO follow behind the crowd.

C-3PO: It couldn't possibly be as bad as all that.

ARTOO beeps.

C-3PO: (continuing) Well, there, I agree with you. In fact, I could do with a tune-up myself.

70 INT. CORUSCANT-SENATE OFFICE BUILDING-MAIN HALLWAY-LATE AFTERNOON

ANAKIN is at the back of the crowd of SENATORS, talking with BAIL ORGANA. R2-D2 and C-3PO scoot along ahead of them.

BAIL ORGANA: The end of Count Dooku will surely bring an end to this war, and an end to the Chancellor's draconian security measures.

ANAKIN: I wish that were so, but the fighting is going to continue until General Grievous is spare parts . . . The C

 

This time I kept the cut-scenes in (in silver). Though I definitely thing the less screen time given to these two the better, there's a few cuts that I think would have been better. Anakin's mistrust and jealousy would have made his turn a bit more believable. The comment Bail makes about the draconian security measures.....Patriot Act anyone?

I would have included the next major scene, which is Anakin & Padme being Schmoopy to one another in her condo, but it's got a short break with Grievous inbetween, so I figured I'd cut it here.

People defend Hayden/Portman's scenes in this movie as being better than AotC's. Granted, this scene isn't horrible.

Bosh

 

Bosh,

very cool use of colors. I find it very helpful.

wish I had waited on my post so that it would follow yours,
I was looking for something else when I came accross mine and
just did a quick copy/paste so as not to loose my place.

and yes, there is much in this scene that could have helped
make Anakins turn to the dark side more workable.

 

It'll be very, very interesting to see what deleted scenes are included in the DVD release in Nov.

I know a lot of the scenes were cut for pacing and time but if the cost of a slightly slower and longer movie meant fleshing out character, motivation and story more then I believe they made the wrong decision.

Again, we'll see if they try to redeem themselves slightly by including them on the DVD. Heck the way Lucas likes to tinker I wouldn't be surprised if he added some of those scenes back in.

 

The next DVD will most likely be the exact same format as the previous 2 with cut scenes on a 2nd disc. Maybe the big collection will have them edited back in (but I doubt it). Probably in a future release a few years from now.

Bosh

 

This is where things started to turn bad for me. First I remembered the scene in the Lost Hope trailer with the EPT3000 droid and blurted out, "Pee on this." I think this was not as bad as the schmoopy scene which is to come.

However, it is interesting that they chose not to mention how long Anakin was gone. I think that is a point that absolutely should have been left in. I had no clue how far along Padme was throughout the length of the film. Was she 5 months? 6? 4? What?

The acting of Portman and Christensen(sp?) was improved but that is not saying much. They still seemed stiff as boards at times as we'll see shortly.

 

portman & christenson stiff in ROTS? pfft. they're ALIVE for the first time in the whole trilogy. doesn't mean the lines are any better, but at least they seem to care.

i am so glad for these cuts. anakin getting all jealous out of nowhere is idiotic to me. i feel like in EpI and EpII lucas cut the film too close to the bone, leaving out tiny bits of character and story that may have helped the enterprise. in EpIII, i think he cuts just enough...although the rebel alliance stuff would have been neat.

 

SNIPPED: Grievous lands on Utapau, chats with Holo-Sidious.

71 EXT. UTAPAU-LANDING PLATFORM-DAY

A small NEIMOIDIAN SHUTTLE lands. BATTLE DROIDS surround the ramp as GENERAL GRIEVOUS descends onto the platform. SUPER BATTLE DROID G21 approaches.

SUPER BATTLE DROID G21: The planet is secure, sir. The population is under control.

GENERAL GRIEVOUS: Good. Where is the Separatist Council?

SUPER BATTLE DROID G21: This way, sir ...

GENERAL GRIEVOUS takes the elevator to an upper level. He enters a conference room and presses a series of buttons on the table, and bows.

72 INT. UTAPAU-CONFERENCE ROOM-GRAND CHAMBER-DAY

A hologram of Darth Sidious appears.

GENERAL GRIEVOUS: Yes, Lord Sidious.

DARTH SlDIOUS: General Grievous, I suggest you move the Separatist leaders to Mustafar.

GENERAL GRIEVOUS: It will be done, My Lord.

DARTH SlDIOUS: The end of the war is near, General, and I promise you, victory is assured.

The hologram of Sidious talks to GRIEVOUS about the death of Count Dooku.

GENERAL GRIEVOUS: But the loss of Count Dooku?

DARTH SlDIOUS: His death was a necessary loss, which will ensure our victory. Soon I will have a new apprentice . . . one far younger and more powerful than Lord Tyranus

 

i love this section...i think it's the music. it really works, and i think the chorus gives grievous this mock-regal vibe that is undercut in an interesting way by the coughing.

 

DarthAstuart,

just a word of support on the "coughing"

just saw the film for the fouth time (more than TPM)

and was more foucsed on the "coughing"

and, this trait, just seems to be getting
better with each viewing.

Ed

 

Yes, let us not forget until Episode III, there is nothing in the movies to tell us why Vader is in the suit and why he breathes like that, etc.

 

Here was my take on the Obi-Wan/R2 thing. Obi-Wan never owned R2. He didn't even use him in his fighter. When he says, "Let us find out what you are..." he means let himself and Luke find out together (since he already knows, although has no real idea why R2 has come looking for him).

I think the Sith engineered Anakin to play into the Jedi's prophecy of the chosen one - only the prophecy was true and the Sith ended up playing into it.

That would mean Sidious would want Anakin discovered. Did he influence the choosing of Tatooine as a place to hide? Perhaps. Or perhaps he just knew the Force would never let one so powerful go undiscovered.

 

Yeah the music for this is right-on. McDiramid has a lot of fun with his lines. Good cuts in the script..I mean who cares about the planet, and if they were going to use one of those moronic droid voices, all the smarter to be gone.

As fun as I think Grievous is, I think it would have been much more interesting (if you have to have some military sub-plot to drag Obi-Wan away from Coruscant) to have developed Tarken. You could still have the super CGI battle with Grievous and the guards, and of course Tarken would escape, but would have been a better tie in to have him actually involved in creating the Empire than the .5 second cameo in the end for such a major player from the OT.

 

Vader creathing vs. Grevious coughing:

To me, at least, Vader seemed like a guy in a suit, so a respirator sound makes sense. Do I know WHY he's in the suit? No, but I do know it's a guy that needs help breathing. Grevious is a droid...OK, we find out later he has some organic components, but they are minimal. For intents and purposes he is metallic, and a droid coughing doesn't work.

Obi-Wan and R2:

OK, I admit this one bugs me a little as well. However, Obi-Wan did say he never OWNED a droid, which is true...from a certain point of view. The real reason is that Lucas is a whack-job and didn't bother to sit down and watch Episodes 4-6 before writing the prequels, but I can come up with 2 plausible "in-game" explanations:

1) Obi-Wan recognized R2, but was playing a waiting game to see what message was being carried before revealing himself and his intentions. Why R2 didn't put together that the young guy in Jedi robes might be related to an old guy in Jedi robes is anyone's guess. Maybe droids don't pay attention to aging cues.

2) In a galactic society with thousands of inhabited planets, there have to be about a gazillion astromech droids, and odds are that more than one of them are colored blue. Even Panaka had to lean close to see R2 designation, so while Obi-Wan recognized him as an R2 unit, there was no way to know if this was R2-D2 or R2-D1 or R2-FU.

 

That doesn't hold water though. R2 knew Obi-Wan's name. "He seems to be the property of an Obi-Wan Kenobi. Could he be a relative of yours?" I'd think that if droids were advanced enough to exhibit emotions, which unlike Anakin and Padme they are, they would be able to figure out that this is the same guy from before!

"Holy schnikeys! Small galaxy dude! What with me and this Skywalker kid and Kenobi together this is like old times. Too bad ole goldie don't know nuttin about it anymore. hahhahaha," thought R2.

 

Never meant to hold water, just hold George's head above it. It's a full time job, these days.

 

Very true my gnomish friend, very true.