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Discussion Diversity in the Sequel Trilogy (see warning on page 11)

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi & IX - Spoilers Allowed' started by Rickleo123, Nov 29, 2016.

  1. Rickleo123 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2016
    star 3
    New article I just saw: http://comicbook.com/starwars/2016/...kathleen-kennedy-says-she-doesnt-need-to-cat/

    "I would never just seize on saying, 'Well, this is a franchise that's appealed primarily to men for many, many years, and therefore I owe men something.'"

    That's a pretty divisive statement from the head of LF if you ask me. I don't think she should "cater" ONLY to the male fans but c'mon this is like someone being in charge of Hunger Games franchise or taking over a new sequel to Frozen and saying "Screw the female fan base that this franchise was obviously catered to. I'm going to turn the main character into a guy and they just have to deal with it."

    Star Wars was born from Lucas' love of old serials like Flash Gordon, which were primarily boys entertainment. What's wrong with honoring the roots of the franchise?
    Last edited by Rickleo123, Nov 29, 2016
  2. RandomGreyJ Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2016
    star 3
    I actually don't have a problem with KK having female centrals in Star Wars. It's about time. Nothing wrong with that. Loved Rey and I can't wait to see Jyn. Star Wars is known for having kickass female characters so it seems like a good thing to do. Take that and add the fact that more poc are getting lead roles and everything seems to be heading in the right direction.

    However, until she feels brave enough to cast a woman of color as the female main character (KMT excluded because she's technically not the central main character), then she should stop patting herself on the back everytime another self-insert white brunette is cast in her films. (And so far, Star Wars has five white brunettes as lead characters)

    Casting a white woman as a lead isn't groundbreaking in Hollywood. It's just another white lead with a person (or people) of color playing secondary to them. Nothing's new about that. I'm still waiting for her to explain how there was a list of woc trying for the female lead role in the Han Solo Anthology, yet against all odds it's Emilia Clarke who happens to land the role? Wow.

    So yes, a man or woman of color playing the central lead role in Star Wars? That's groundbreaking and that's different. Until she does that, she can "shhhhhhh."
    Last edited by RandomGreyJ, Nov 29, 2016
  3. ThreeDeathstickProblem Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2014
    star 5
    The "something" in question was the objection to two female leads in a row, and whether Kennedy should cater to fans upset about that. And no, she shouldn't cater to those upset that 25% of these films are female-led.

    Also, Rey wasn't turned into a guy. Rey was always Rey. Lucas himself wanted a female lead for the ST. So yeah, fans upset about that can "deal with it."
    Last edited by ThreeDeathstickProblem, Nov 29, 2016
  4. Dra--- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 6
    You act as though the "roots" didn't come from a historical period where sexism and inequality weren't the norm. That's what's wrong with honoring the past; it often means honoring values that should no longer be honored.

    I'm a dude and I don't think the statement is divisive at all. Perhaps it is for insecure men or reactionaries.
    Last edited by Dra---, Nov 29, 2016
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  5. RandomGreyJ Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2016
    star 3
    Well said. It's 2016 and I'm glad Star Wars (and Disney with Marvel) seems to be pushing for diversity and representation.
    Last edited by RandomGreyJ, Nov 29, 2016
  6. Storm_Cloud Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2016
    star 3
    As long as they don't reboot with an all female cast led by Melissa McCarthy, I don't think it matters a jot.

    It's never really occurred to me to have an opinion on having a female lead in Star Wars.
    ThisHurricane and Zejo the Jedi like this.
  7. Dra--- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 6
    Ghostbusters didn't have an all female cast. And I think McCarthy is great.

    And even if a SW film did have an all female cast, it wouldn't bother me. If anything, it would be different than the usual 80% male cast in action films.
  8. Darth Smurf Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2015
    star 4
    If Star Wars 10 gets an all female cast I vote for
    Star Wars X: Amazon Prime


    Honestly, who cares?
    Last edited by Darth Smurf, Nov 30, 2016
  9. Satipo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2014
    star 7
    Fair comment from KK and I'm glad she made it. I'm a dude as well, and IMO it's ultimately more divisive to resist change in favour of an outdated status quo because some people might find that challenging. What's disappointing in the article is the suggestion that a deal lead might be a risky move. It's strange that people think two female characters in a row is some how a snub given the sheer weight of male centric films to date. I agree with what Felicity says - men and women should be able to empathise with characters because of who they are as a a character - something I think TFA proved resoundingly. But that is going to mean redressing an institutional and historic imbalance, which to some will (wrongly IMO) feel like a diss (see the pathetic tantrums over the Ghostbusters reboot - oh no, a film had some women it it, how awful - grow up.) There is more to do in terms of a female director and female POC lead, but I'm very happy to see SW moving forwards like this. People who are upset that 2 films out of 8 feature female leads are either consciously or unconsciously sexist, and in this day and age, shouldn't be catered to.
    Last edited by Satipo, Nov 30, 2016
  10. Artoo-Dion New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2009
    star 5
    It's only "divisive" if you feel that Star Wars should remain a boy's club. We're not talking about some testosterone-fuelled action franchise like Death Wish or Missing in Action--the appeal of Star Wars is universal, and it's a historical quirk that gave it a male protagonist.

    I mean, Luke was going to be a girl at one point. So maybe anyone threatened by Kennedy's comments is not "honouring the roots of the franchise".
    TX-20, jaqen, DaddlerTheDalek and 8 others like this.
  11. nightangel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2014
    star 6
    I'm female and I don't care if there is a male lead or a female lead. I also don't care if blonde, brunette, black or whatever. I only care or don't care for the characters itself and if I can identify with them. I can identify with females or males and this doesn't make a difference for me. It never did as you can see that my favorite character of all time is Luke Skywalker. [face_love]
    TX-20, jaqen, JediMatteus and 6 others like this.
  12. Satipo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2014
    star 7
    Which is where we need to get to, and I think we are getting there.
    nightangel likes this.
  13. RandomGreyJ Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2016
    star 3
    If I may...
    I think that Rey taught little girls that it's alright to accept help and be independent and strong, while still remaining kind and caring towards others.
    Finn taught that young boys that it doesn't matter how you're raised, you can still be a good, strong, noble man. We learn through Finn that it doesn't matter how many times you fail, as long as you keep getting back up and fighting for what you believe is right. Even against all odds.

    Finn and Rey both taught that your past doesn't define your future. They were both raised in harsh abusive environments that most people would use as a tragic villain backstory, but instead, today they're the new heroes of Star Wars. And if they decide to go in this direction, then they also set a great example of what a healthy potential romance could be as well, with both sides deeply caring for each other and having equal respect and compassion.

    So it's strange to say that she's catering to one group of people. Finn and Rey both have epic stories to tell, and I'm sure she cares about Finn and Poe being represented properly as men of color as she does Rey.
  14. Charlie07 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2015
    star 4
    This whole thing is based on KK responding to the idiots that are triggered because two female leads have led the last two movies. She isn't making this statement in a vacuum.

    How is it divisive in proper context?
  15. GregMcP Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2015
    star 4
    Ergh.
    This kind of misogynous nonsense is just going to get louder of the coming years.
    Last edited by GregMcP, Nov 30, 2016
  16. Artoo-Dion New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2009
    star 5
    The problem is the assumption that breaking conventions regarding the gender of the protagonist is some sort of political statement. Once may have been an accident, but twice is social engineering! Don't use my precious Star Wars for your nefarious progressive agenda!
  17. cerealbox Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2016
    star 5
    Because the Flash Gordon that Lucas based it on is passé. And too early 20 th century in tone. The world has moved on. And in order for Star Wars hostage relevant, it has to adapt to the times.
    Last edited by cerealbox, Nov 30, 2016
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  18. Darth Smurf Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2015
    star 4

    Example:
    Boys entertainment with female lead:
    [IMG]

    Boys entertainment male lead:
    [IMG]


    By the way Flash Gordon is now Star Wars canon. It tells the story of young Lor San Tekka
    [IMG]
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  19. cerealbox Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2016
    star 5
    Uh ......that should say "to stay" not "hostage"
  20. themoth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2015
    star 4
    She knows men are seeing SW regardless. So they're aiming for another part of the market.
  21. General_Leia_Organa Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2016
    star 3


    I've seen a number of female friends and acquaintances really enjoy Star Wars for the first time because of TFA. My own sister who mocked me for getting excited for it last year ended up seeing it twice. Reflecting back a significant portion of your audience is going to result in profit....who knew!

    If Star Wars can can keep pushing forward and cast more women, more people of color, I think it will end up being more timeless as a result. It's a global hit, it ought to be reflecting back the world that is going to see it.
  22. themoth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2015
    star 4
    SW appeals to everyone. And seriously, it's a big galaxy. There's diversity. These things are the norm.
  23. Martoto77 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2016
    star 4
    Actually it sounds more consistent with assuaging any fans who are possibly anxious that one set of fans or another might be "pandered" to.

    Is there an optimal number of times when breaking a convention is permissible?
  24. Zejo the Jedi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2016
    star 3
    I don't care, as long as the future female leads are more interesting and realistic than Rey.
    And i want more hot alien chicks!
    Last edited by Zejo the Jedi, Nov 30, 2016
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  25. Artoo-Dion New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2009
    star 5
    Yeah, anything beyond once represents a "trend". I don't support that POV, BTW.

    I think I can guess what you mean by "interesting"...
    Last edited by Artoo-Dion, Nov 30, 2016
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