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Discussion Diversity in the Sequel Trilogy (see warning on page 11)

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by Rickleo123, Nov 29, 2016.

  1. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Er, where on earth did you get that idea from? You think RJ/Lucasfilm have mutually agreed on him being in creative control of a trilogy without him having discussed his ideas with them?

    “So I don’t know what D&D did”

    I’ll give you a clue; it probably involved a combination of discussing and presenting their ideas, as well as contextualising their previous work to demonstrate why they think they’ll be a good fit.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  2. Miriedis

    Miriedis Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    May 23, 2015
    https://screenrant.com/rian-johnson-star-wars-trilogy-story/
    Here, Johnson says he literally didn't have anything in mind, other than "man, I want to keep my momentum going. How about a new trilogy with new places and characters? I don't have any plot in mind, other than the idea that we just do this." And they said yes.

    So, at this point, I could imagine D&D walking up to Disney/Lucasfilm execs, then saying "give us our own trilogy". And Lucasfilm would look at HBO numbers, and just go "sure!"
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
    Shadao, 11-4D, afrojedi and 6 others like this.
  3. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    That’s not what that article shows at all. It says he’s being tight lipped, mentions his enthusiasm, and implies that the story isn’t yet written. There’s a whole lot of “pitching” that isn’t just about story beats, so no, you’re barking up the wrong tree if you think there isn’t some agreement with LF about his creative direction/ideas for his trilogy.

    Or, just y’know, take the worst possible reading of everything, in that tiresome way some on here have of reading to everything.
     
  4. La Calavera

    La Calavera Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Kathleen Kennedy said “I have no idea what he is going to do” when someone at the Japan press conference asked her if she could tell anything about RJ's trilogy. She also said they were going to start story discussion in the beginning of 2018.

    Sounds to me RJ got a trilogy without having to pitch anything.
     
  5. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Lawgiver & Casual Flyer star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Yeah, this isn't the place for this, but I wouldn't take those quotes at face value. I'd take the discussion over to the RJ trilogy thread.
     
    Jedi Merkurian and CEB like this.
  6. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    We have just posted a new rules and policy thread. Everyone should take a look:
    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...es-and-policies-thread-2018-edition.50048371/

    This part in particular:

    This forum is a place for discussing the films, which means that you think the films are worth discussing. It is not a forum for discussing how much the films are not worth discussing and/or how the actions of Disney, Lucasfilm, etc. have resulted in films not worth discussing--we have a zero tolerance policy towards posts and posters dragging conversation down to that level.

    Make no mistake from here on out the staff here will be vigilant and absolutely unforgiving in its enforcement of this rule. Above all else these forums are meant to be a fun place to discuss Star Wars but for far too long they've been little more than a cesspool. No more. If you want to rant endlessly about how awful the films were or if you refuse to here any kind of criticism about them I only have one thing to say... go get your own blog and post there. If you wish to engage in constructive conversation that remain respectful of one another then please stay here. There is no middle ground. This is how it's going to be. To paraphrase a certain campaign slogan... We're Gonna Make the Forums Fun Again!
     
  7. RandomGreyJ

    RandomGreyJ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2016
    @Darth Chiznuk "You're asking me to be rational. I know that is something I cannot do."
     
  8. dragonchic

    dragonchic Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2015
    KK has also made sketchy statements regarding whether any women directors have the "experience" needed to handle a huge project like Star Wars, despite the fact that TLJ was Rian's first big budget gig, so I think we're long past giving Lucasfilm the benefit of the doubt on this issue.
     
  9. La Calavera

    La Calavera Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Perhaps but we can’t use quotes to discuss the state of LFL in which there seems to be a high proportion of white male directors who are freely given not just one, but a bunch of movies to direct for unknown reasons (did they even have a pitch?) when the same company is trying to promote diversity, in the Diversity Thread? I think it’s a fair argument to have here.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  10. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    (Did they even have a pitch?)

    Yes. Yes they did.

    Edited to add; come on, you can’t say “unknown reasons” when you’re talking about people with track records of making well regarded movies/TV. That’s a separate discussion from diversity, and pretending that the people hired aren’t eminently qualified for the job doesn’t make the point very well
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
    DarthPhilosopher likes this.
  11. NHB0M

    NHB0M Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2016
    Hollywood Reporter

     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  12. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    Ava Duvernay liked this tweet and others about this situation of Lucasfilm
     
  13. afrojedi

    afrojedi Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2015
    Imagine we followed this logic to determine the foods we could choose from in restaurants. Imagine only choosing from bangers & mash, fish & chips and yorkshire pudding or some closely resembled variant. Can't trust cuisines from other regions because they just aren't as good (completely based on merit of course).
     
  14. Dame sans merci

    Dame sans merci Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2016
    To expand on your metaphor, Star Wars will also hopefully end up with an unofficial national dish of Chicken Tikka Masala once they invite a bit of variety into their production...
     
  15. Oissan

    Oissan Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2001
    I find the idea that a company that has a female president, female general manager and female head of the Star Wars story group to somehow be against hiring women patently absurd. How about people actually wait and see who will be involved in the making all these new movies, before they start complaining about women not getting any chances from a female-led company?

    There has been no word on who will write or direct the second and third movie of Johnson's trilogy, there has been no word on who will direct the various movies that get written by the GoT-makers, there has been no word on whether there are additional anthology movies in development, or who will be in charge of the various new tv-shows that are in development. 99% of the jobs have not even been announced yet, yet some people act like they are definately all going to be filled with nothing but white men. How about actually waiting until there is something to judge, before throwing around accusations that (so far) have no basis in reality?

    It's not like you can't complain about a lack of females - or people of colour, or whatever other group of people you can think of - when it is clear whether that is actually the case. Doing so now is nothing but premature.
     
    {Quantum/MIDI}, bluealien1 and CEB like this.
  16. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    I wouldn’t go quite as far as “absurd”, but it does seem a bit OTT.
    It seems that when it comes to diversity and progressiveness, organisations, people, and companies that are going in the right direction get more criticism for not going further and faster, than others do for not giving a **** at all.
    Yes, there are female directors who are qualified to direct Star Wars, and I hope they do, and they should do, but while they are so rare in number as to be able to be the same 2-3 names that keep coming up, it does seem reasonable to give KK the BOTD that it’s just that it hasn’t worked out for whatsoever reason yet.
    As with every aspect of diversity, it seems weird to zero in to one franchise rather than movies as a whole. I want more diverse movies, and I want Star Wars to keep up with the world. But Star Wars by itself can’t do all of it, and it seems simlpistic (and playing into the hands of the alt right) to automatically roll eyes when a white male is recruited.
     
  17. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    She was brought up in another thread and made me think: I’d like to see Ava Duverney direct a Star Wars film.
     
    Jedi Jessy and Jedi Merkurian like this.
  18. NHB0M

    NHB0M Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2016
    Star Wars has been around for 41 years. Out of 24 people only one has woman ever been part of the writing process and that's way back in 1980.

    TFA + TLJ + IX + Rogue One +Solo= 5 movies. All made by white men.

    RJ has a trilogy.

    Benioff and Weiss has a series of movies.

    Yet, the same ole "why don't you wait" excuse is being pulled?

    As for the idea that the pool of female directors/producers is so rare that the same 2-3 people are named... the articles I posted listed 10 women who can do the job.

    People will list the more popular women of the moment but there are far more female directors and writers than one can think. They just don't get the same opportunities as a guy who directed a couple of indies and Breaking Bad episodes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  19. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    I would also like that, but I can’t get on board with the idea that a failure to hire her would be a failure, or that recruitment of others can be seen as an exclusion of her
     
  20. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    This excuse always show up. Yes, let's wait
    [​IMG]


    ‘Star Wars’: 96% of Its Film Universe Writers and Directors Are White Men
    http://variety.com/2018/film/column...ones-weiss-benioff-white-creators-1202689891/
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
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  21. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    I think that’s a bit of a misrepresentation - I’m absolutely not saying “wait, do nothing, and eventually this stuff sorts itself out”; there absolutely is a problem with representation in movies, and calling for change is what will bring it about.
    But that that shouldn’t result in eye rolling when proven directors who seem potentially a good fit for Star Wars are hired who don’t fit the diversity requirements we all want.
     
  22. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Vampire Killer star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Sadly, what you're describing gets celebrated on the menu as The "Special".

    I said this earlier, in regard to Caucasian actors continuing to outnumber other demographics, but every single time a person is hired... for any position... a quota is being filled. If a quota is automatically being filled, simply through the act of filling any position, there is no justifiable reason... at all... to not branch out from the cookie cutter mold of autofilling with white males. Unless, white males really are the most qualified to fill these positions. Every. Single. Time.
     
  23. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    I think “qualified” is the wrong word here; if we’re just talking about hiring directors who are eminently qualified for the job, then yes, of course there’s absolutely no reason not to have a moratorium on white straight males for a few years while representation takes priority. But surely the issue is slightly more complex than that, in that within such a narrow thing as a singular franchise, it’s not just about who is qualified for the job, it’s about who has the combination of factors that make that person right for a specific film, at a specific time (including their own availability and willingness to take it on)

    I think there was a missed opportunity with IX before Trevorrow was hired - that hiring was a mistake, but I think JJ Abrams was possibly the only choice e he was sacked. I don’t think Solo was a film should be happening, and certainly there, something very different would have been welcomed. But I just don’t see that an announcement of D&D is cause for consternation, especially since we don’t yet know who will direct the films they write.
     
  24. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    The problem with the "just be patient" is that it's so nebulous (what qualifies as "being patient" to you), and some people seem to want us to give them unlimited time to finally get around to this. It's like with Marvel, it's a decade since it's started and 20+ films and STILL not one has had a solo female director. But if you dare to point that out, it's either "well they should choose the best person for the job," which ONLY seems to come up in order to justify not hiring female/POC filmmakers, or "well be patient," (it's been ten years and 20 films, I'd argue that people have been remarkably patient already).

    If they want to keep pumping these films out so quickly as well, well then the issue becomes even more noticeable (and them having to fire several of their previous choices doesn't help their case either). Meaningless "well we'll get to it eventually" platitudes only go so far, why can you not do it sooner? I mean what is the big deal, why is finding such filmmakers so hard for you?
     
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  25. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Personally, I would say that if the next person announced to direct isn’t something other than a white straight man, that will be disappointing.