ST Diversity in the Sequel Trilogy (see warning on page 11)

Well we appear to be taking big action movies rather than other kinds of films, of which there are of course countless examples of strong female leads.

So why is that? Comic book movies are mostly based on really old superheroes from back in the day, so I suspect comic book movies are disproportionately unrepresentative. In real life, the combat roles in the military and police are male-dominated, so you’d expect action movies that involve police and military to reflect that.

 

I actually do think there are a number of badass female leads that get ignored when people pretty much always cite Ripley and Sarah Connor. Just for one example, The Bride from Kill Bill is maybe my favorite female badass in a movie. I think it's just that it's still sort of a novelty compared to white male action stars. One only has to look at Marvel movies, the most successful franchise of hero stories that I can think of, to find a rainbow of varying shades of white male leads.

 

Sad things is, Star Wars would be tailor-made for inclusion because, unlike even the Marvel movies which take place mostly on Earth (other than Guardians which noticeably has a green-skinned female lead and love interest and it`s normal as all) it is a universe that has nothing to do with Earth-bound culture. I mean, people in-universe would have a variety of reactions to Finn being a former stormtrooper but not because he is a black former stormtrooper. Cassian, Chirrut, Baez, Rose, Paige etc, it`s not how about their looks or accents in-universe, it`s about what they do.

That way, diversity sends a message of "well, it`s completely normal" which I find pretty powerful.

Happy to hear BP is doing well. I really liked T`Challa`s character in Civil War. Marvel seems to have a golden hand right now.

Kinda insofar that comic-wise, she is part of the trifecta with Batman and Superman. And there have been several movie adaptions of each so far but none really of her.

It`s also IMO the first good female-led comic book movie. There is an old Supergirl flick which isn`t good. And Catwoman was atrocious.

 

The problem with Hollywood's first attempts into female-led comic movies is that Hollywood just couldn't fathom not over-sexualizing the women. That's how women are portrayed in the comics after all. Too bad Elektra and Catwoman, in my experience, didn't appeal to the female audience the same way Wonder Woman or Kill Bill (not a comic book movie technically, but it has that kind of feel to me) did.

 

-The director is a woman
-the movie showed 50 years old women in action scenes
-the screenwriter is a gay jewish
-the actor Eugene Brave Rock (a native american) had freedom to work with the director about his character (even the costume). During the movie, his character mention to Diana about what "Steve’s people" made to native americans

 

^^^It says a lot about Wonder Woman that my favorite female character in it is Antiope. WW is like BP in that it doesn't just have a non-white male lead character surrounded by white men, but it has a non-white male cast of important characters.

 

BP was glorious. Even the villain was well written. He was actually right, he was just crazy. The women aren't over sexualized, which honestly made me super thirsty just looking at them being women. Aside from too much cg stuntmen, the movie was perfect.

 

Damn

 

Selecting two well known movies 40 years apart does not discount the myriad quality parts that have achieved critical and financial success in recent years.

Films with strong/interesting female characters in the last 12 months or so that no one is complaining about:

BP
Three Billboards
WW
Ladybird
I, Tonya
Atomic Blonde
Molly's Game
Thor Ragnorok
La La Land
The mountain between us

Films people complained about

Ghost in the Shell (on the fallacious basis it looked like white washing even though the character is actually caucasisn in the source material)

TLJ: because reasons

Diversity in movies (if defined as quality roles for women and minorities) is not just rolling around every generstion or so. They are regularly doing well critically and financially.

The complaints about TLJ are not about Diversity at all. This is a smokescreen used to deflect criticism. It's actually about a lack of care for the story telling that has thrown light on the diversity isdue unfairly as it makes it feel more like tokenism than it should.

If the characters were better realised there wouild be no cause for complaints at all.

Why? Because Diversity is inherently a good thing when done well.

 

No The Major in Ghost in the Shell is decidedly NOT Caucasian in the source material).

 

This should already say enough...

 

It's convoluted.

The Major is a cyborg with White Skin. Yes she is Asian on the inside (as depicted in the movie as well BTW), but I am simply referring to the fact that Johansson's casting was actually a perfectly accurate depiction.

 

No the show and films make it very clear that she's Asian all the way. Don't confuse common anime techniques with her being meant to be "an Asian in a white person's body" because that's NOT what it is.

 

It was not. At all. The Major is a Japanese woman. This is a simple fact. She's not a "white person" with japanese name.

 

Eh. She is a white cyborg Asian woman. We're saying exactly the same thing.

She's Asian. I never said otherwise.

Perhaps I should have used the word 'white' rather than 'caucasian'.

Regardless, casting a caucasian to play the white-skinned cyborg was a non-issue.

 

Since when have Japanese people referred to themselves as "white"? I wouldn't say its the same thing.

 

https://www.refinery29.com/2018/02/191144/jj-abrams-star-wars-anti-women-trolls

Not sure if this has been posted, but wow. I get where JJ is coming from and there is a population that is like this, but I really do think the majority of the Star Wars population and even TLJ haters don't feel like this.

I certainly don't feel threatened by women. I mean we had Carrie kicking butt and taking names in the OT. Never felt threatened. I think it was more the execution of the ST and the characters that has more people upset than threatened.

Had Holdo and Rose were better developed and more likable characters I don't think there would be problems at all.

 

It's funny to me that they say people that hate TLJ are just misogynists and hate strong women, but in pop culture generally, people aren't looking to TLJ as a feminist movie. BP now is that. WW was that. I saw Chadwick Boseman on The View promoting BP, and he brought up WW as the most recent feminist movie phenomenon to compare BP to. He didn't bring up TLJ. I also don't hear a lot these "misogynists" such as myself hating BP for its portrayal of fierce, brilliant, independent women. I think there is a lot more to hate for women haters in WW and BP by a mile.

 

Derp. I've explained it three times.

They don't. And it's not.

The Major isn't white by race she's 'white' as in the physical colour white.

Here is a nice article to help you through your confusion:

https://www.quora.com/Is-Major-Motoko-Kusanagi-from-Ghost-in-the-Shell-Caucasian

Way to derail my actual post about TLJ btw.

 

You're using semantics in order to write of a blatant case of white washing. If it were a non issue, then what the hell were all those japanese/asian fans pissed about? (not to mention GITS fans in general.) They were just overreacting? Or where they upset because they love feeling that way and will use anything as an excuse?

Please don't play the "off topic/on topic" game. You said something that was completely false and demonstrates a lot of the problems many here have discussed.

 

Co-sign.

 

Not false. Accurate. And offered with a nice helpful link as supporting evidence.

You are only offering up your misguided feelings of offence.

Did you even read the link? It has extensive analysis of the philosophical themes of Ghost in the Shell and quotes directly from the Japanese creators explaining exactly why it wasn't white washing.

Whose feelings are you defending? Your own in ignorance of the context?

If you read those quotes and are obstinately refusing to accept them then that is your choice. Doesn't make it a valid opinion, though.

I wasn't using an off topic defence either. Just reminding you that my original post contained exactly one sentence about Ghost in The Shell, and you have chosen to attack that rather than discuss TLJ.

 

JJ Abrams: "I will say that the story of Rey and Poe and Finn and Kylo Ren — and if you look, there are three men and one woman"

JJ totally forgot about Rose Tico, the new female lead