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Discussion Diversity in the Sequel Trilogy (see warning on page 11)

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by Rickleo123, Nov 29, 2016.

  1. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    A reduction in screen time for one movie does not rob the character of dignity. Not IMO anyway.
    How was he a sidekick? Who's sidekick was he? In fact he had his own sidekick. His character still underwent important development & he'll likely be more prominent in IX. We can bet that Abrams will team him up with Rey again.
     
  2. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    No, he underwent zero development. He had the same freaking arc that he had in TFA (and no, I do not buy that suddenly he learned something here that he didn't learn there). Also he accomplished absolutely freaking nothing in the movie (even less than in TFA), and he was once again the butt of jokes/treated like a clueless child constantly.

    He was basically Rose's sidekick since she drove a lot o the action. So no, I do NOT trust them to do right by him in IX, they've had two movies to do so and failed both times.
     
  3. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 8, 2014
    Please tell why anyone should take anything thing you say seriously given you clumsily used the term "colored people" a few posts back?

    As a black american man, please do not try to school me on why you think the black panther movie is problematic.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  4. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Fearless Vampire Killer star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    LOL at our resident gushers whitesplaining to POC what acceptable cutural representation is.

    2 films of mop jokes, having life explained to him by white and Asian girls and multiple attempts to run away clearly should satisfy our black community.
     
  5. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    Also considering how the entire second half of the movie constantly questions whether Wakanda's isolationism is correct, the theme is much more complicated that he seemed to think.
     
  6. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    My apologies if I misused a term. No offence was intended.
    Not trying to school anyone. Just adding my opinion. Feel free to dismiss it, as we're always within our rights to do.
    At the end of TFA he put Rey ahead of himself. He didn't care about fighting for freedom, the cause of the Resistance. At the end of TLJ he does. He becomes a fully fledged Rebel. If my calculations are correct that's a level of development greater than zero.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  7. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    Don't let him school ya! No. No.

    Or even try to...

    Never mind.

    ;)
     
  8. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    I think if Lucasfilm wants to show that everybody can be a Force User... They maybe can start showing people of color being FS too? Rey, the boy in TLJ, Kylo... All of them are white

    PS: Even when Rey Skywalker was a possibility I thought she should be played by a woc. "If she is Luke's daughter, she need to be white" doesn't make sense because Rey's mom could be a woman of color
     
  9. wobbits

    wobbits Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 12, 2017
    Mace Windu
     
  10. ForcePushUp

    ForcePushUp Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 19, 2016
    Here's my whole thing about Diversity in films in general.

    I don't care.

    I literally don't care, and that works both ways.

    I am not going to like or dislike a movie based on who or what is represented in the movie.

    Is the story good? Is the acting good? Can I get emotionally invested in the characters? Then that's all I need.

    My favorite movie last year was the one that had motion capture apes in it. I don't need my characters to look like me to enjoy it.

    If you want to have a diverse cast, by all means, go for it, but I'm not going to give you a pass if the movie sucks. The Ghostbusters debacle is a prime example of that. You do have sexist people that hated it because it had women in it. However, if you're at all like me, you probably hated the movie because it was unfunny and terrible. And very few people seemed to have a problem with Wonder Woman...I wonder if that's because it was, you know, good!

    My favorite series of movies ever are the Rocky films (sorry Star Wars, but its true) and I was totally down for a movie about Apollo Creed's son, and it delivered big time. I loved it! Michael B. Jordan was terrific in it. In talking about the movie, I didn't go "Isn't it great to see people of color in leads" but instead I said "Yeah! Jordan is awesome! He was greta, and Sly was great, and the movie had me in tears during parts of it, and the ending made me want to go out and fight a bear because I was so jacked up and excited! Woooo!". Compare that to Black Panther which I thought was GOOD, but not without obvious flaws. A near all black cast doesn't cover up the fact that the special effects during the last fight were TERRIBLE, I found the little sister character annoying, and Martin Freeman's character (the white guy) seemed completely pointless and could have easily been dropped. But I liked the World building, most of the story, and Michael B Jordan was, once again, terrific. So yeah, solid flick, but not without flaws, and I don't feel like I should have to skirt around pointing out those flaws just because the film is diverse.

    Now getting back to Star Wars, I have liked the ST so far, but it has its problems. Diversity doesn't cover up the fact that Phasma was wasted despite being all over the marketing for TFA, or the fact that the whole conflict is just a rehash of what we already saw in the OT, or the fact that Starkiller Base was the most pointless plot device ever.

    Diversity is fine and if you want to do it, go for it, but its not an instant blindfold to problems in your story, at least not for me.
     
  11. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    I'm talking about this trilogy and because of it:

    “I went through all the possibilities of who her parents could be,” Johnson said. “I made a list, with the upsides and downsides” (a list that was probably promptly destroyed by a harried Lucasfilm intern). He landed where he did because he was fond of “breaking out from the notion that the Force is this genetic thing that you have to be tied to somebody to have. It’s the ‘anybody can be president’ idea, which I liked introducing. The foremost thing, though, was just dramatically, storytelling-wise.

    https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/01/the-last-jedi-rey-parents-rian-johnson
     
  12. Blastaar

    Blastaar Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015
    [​IMG]
    Holy dog ****.




    I do like how you cherry picked an article in order to disregard the near universal celebration of the black panther and what it represents for black people GLOBALLY. I could post article after article, or video clip after video clip where black people in america and in Africa are celebrating a positive depiction of an African nation where white supremacy never existed. "Hollywood african" has never looked anywhere near what is depicted in the black panther. Finn is not what I'd call a positive depiction of, how you would term it, "colored people". Finn is a cowardly space janitor who in spite of you claiming him to be loyal to his friends, has to be tasered to sleep in order to keep him from deserting them. Please...stop stinking up the thread with this utter bull****.
     
  13. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    I disagree with much in the article but I agree about the treatment of the villain. I would have rather had a villain that lived in which we can flirt with the possibility of redemption and use the same villain again.

    From reading that article I don't really understand if a black character could be a villain if there are any white characters in the movie because I don't know under what circumstances a black villain would be acceptable because it wouldn't show white people as bad. And the article missed that the CIA guy is the token white guy in the movie to kind of mirror how mostly white movies will have the token black guy. The token black guy can do heroic things but will never be the main drama.

    CIA guy is entertaining and kind of comic relief and not the point of the drama. In fact one wants to get back to the main drama rather than watch his side mission. Yes his mission is important, but it's not the main drama.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  14. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    Ava about directing a Star Wars film



    1 month ago she liked this tweet and others
     
  15. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    It was one example among many. I thought it raised some good points, as well as some dubious ones. Did you find any worthwhile arguments or just all dog ****?
    Arguably at the expense of the real African people in the movie. No positive African American characters. No positive "real" Africans represented either. The only good, noble or wise Africans in the movie are from the fictional utopia nation. Who are only a successful utopia bcs a magical asteroid once landed on them. Not through any real agency of their own. Do you see no validity in any of those points at all?
    You have seen the movie right? Finn got hold of the locator beacon which he planned to use to go & rescue Rey (again). At that point he was not a member of the Resistance, so how is that deserting? He was a free individual, not an officer.
    Question, when Luke & Leia temporarily left the Alliance to go & rescue their friend Han Solo were they cowardly deserters too?
     
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  16. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Totally agree about Finn and deserting. He never signed on with the Resistance. That was all Rose's assumptions. And also I didn't think there was anything *wrong* with what he was doing. Rey wouldn't have appreciated it at all, but I wouldn't use "selfish traitor" as a descriptor for Finn in this.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  17. Rhyoth

    Rhyoth Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Agreed, Plus the "Traitor" line is quite ironic : Finn just commited desertion (from Rose PoV), but when Poe commits actual treason (resulting in hundreds of "Rebels" death), all he gets is a "I kinda like him".

    The difference of treatment between both cases is just weird.
     
  18. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    I find it a bit interesting though, that when he is between sides, both sides call him a traitor. That only ends after he commits to a side.
     
  19. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    That's the genuine character development that's in the movie. In TFA he put someone else ahead of himself. At the end of TLJ he put the cause ahead of himself. Still, Rose made an incorrect assumption RE his desertion.
     
    oncafar likes this.
  20. Troopa212

    Troopa212 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 2016
    Umm, the reason why there are mish-mashed African cultures is because it's a fictional nation. If they did what you seem to be arguing they should have done, which is use a single country's language and culture, then it wouldn't be Wakanda, it would be that real-life country.
    Similarly, if a filmmaker made your hypothetical Asian movie, I would venture to guess that just like with Black Panther there wouldn't be very many people that would have a problem with elements of their culture being used in a positive manner. Especially if people from those countries are also being depicted and positively represented in the film.
     
  21. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Yes. All the people who call Finn "traitor" are wrong. He's the true of heart character who is being called traitor. That's not a terrible pattern. It has to do with not declaring his own path. The FO assume he is theirs like they assume all of their kidnapped brainwashed ilk are theirs. He never chose it. He's not truly a traitor for leaving or turning against it. He helped the Resistance in TFA largely for his own reasons. He hadn't chosen them. He's kind of on the fence. But Rose assumes he's theirs when he never said he was. Finally, by the end of TLJ he has chosen his path. This will end getting stuck in this traitor pickle (though of course to the FO he will always be a traitor) because his chosen side is one he can't betray. He's found his path.

    I guess what I mean is it's interesting how he's being called "traitor" when he can't betray anything because he has no side and no path (like DJ). Post TLJ he has chosen a path, which means he actually has something to betray for the first time were he to ever go that way (which he won't).
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
    Darth Downunder likes this.
  22. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
  23. cerealbox

    cerealbox Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    He was using Resistance equipment to do it.

    Not to mention Rey accepted to take the Resistance mission to find Luke and bring him back.

    Finn was undermining that mission and putting it in jeopardy when trying to leave.
     
    oncafar likes this.
  24. Lost_Hope

    Lost_Hope Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    So no Ava for SW film. Great, just fantastic. But I'm happy that she stated this clearly now.

    In the end of the day I'm not surprised considering how fast she left CT's production of Intelligent Life. I'm sure that the screenplay was a mess and Ava doesn't play by someone else's rules.
     
  25. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Okay, I guess that is bad that he was going to take the tracker and undermine everything. It would have been making Rey's decision for her because she wouldn't have been able to find the Resistance again. And it would have doomed the Resistance.

    But I also understand his point of view in that he thinks the Resistance IS doomed.
     
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