main
side
curve
  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

  2. Enter the Episode IX Treatment Contest! Details here!

  3. READ THIS: your ability to post here depends upon it.. See the new rules thread here. Bans can and will be handed out to anyone who doesn't abide by the forum rules.

Discussion Diversity in the Sequel Trilogy (see warning on page 11)

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by Rickleo123, Nov 29, 2016.

  1. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Which was a clever line bcs the Jabari honor the gorilla as their idol, who are big & fierce but vegetarians. As a side note M'Baku, the leader of that tribe's alter-ego in the comics is "Man-Ape". Which they chose not to reference for fear of seeming racist. Instead they created his idolatry of gorillas as a homage to his comic roots. Probably the right call.
     
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  2. Blastaar

    Blastaar Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Probably.
     
  3. PymParticles

    PymParticles Cruel but Fair Tyrant of New Films star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2014
    As great of a movie as it is, this isn't a thread for discussing Black Panther.
     
    Vicarious Fan likes this.
  4. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    My big thing is "why am I supposed to believe that NOW he's learned enough to commit fully the Resistance now, as opposed to in TFA?" The movie does a terrible job of explaining/justifying that notion imo. It's the same basic arc and he's getting into shenanigans with a female that he just met, he just fails more completely and spectacularly this time around. So what's changed now as opposed to then to make him "see the light?" The movie doesn't earn that at all.
     
  5. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    More time & more experience. His mission with Rose. Hearing about her ideals. Witnessing more unfairness & oppression in the galaxy during their mission. Basically he grew to value the cause, in part bcs of the devotion to it from people he respects. Rey, Poe, Rose. It's a very simple & realistic depiction. Not all that dissimilar to Han in the OT. He was a mercenary then suddenly he was a member of the Rebellion. Did the OT delve deeply into his psyche & his motivations? No. The main driver seemed to be caring for his friends who were with the Alliance.
     
  6. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Finn witnessed the oppression. That’s why he got out of the First Order initially.

    I liked Rose well enough but I don’t agree that Finn was not anti- First-Order enough and needed her to lecture him on why Resistance values are good. If that’s what Johnson wanted to depict, it is a reduction of Finn’s character, and Rose’s for that matter.
     
  7. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 8, 2014
    Except Han wasn't raised from childhood in the empire or brainwashed.

    Finn is a character that having emotional complexity in how the character is written should be essential. But Lucasfilm thinks comedy is more important for him.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  8. Dame sans merci

    Dame sans merci Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2016
    Now, I like Jon Favreau. He's a strong choice for a showrunner. I'm sure he'll be great.

    But how utterly tone deaf do you have to be to announce another while male hire on International womens' day?!

    Bloody hell, Lucas Film.
     
  9. cerealbox

    cerealbox Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    Unfortunately as he told Han in TFA, he's just at Starkiller for Rey. And using the Resistance resources to do it. He wasn't down with the cause.

    According to the novel, Finn thinks if he was still conscious at the end of the Starkiller base debacle, he would have still asked Rey to leave with him when they got back to D'Qar and leave the Resistance to their own devices.

    He doesn't get why Rey volunteered to go find Luke.


    So TLJ, is suppose to be where Finn has an epiphany on where he stands (outside of wanting to be with Rey).

    He has to realize Rey is following her own path, and that he has to choose his.
     
    oncafar and Lost_Hope like this.
  10. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    I just... can't believe it




    lmao dude...
     
  11. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Fearless Vampire Killer star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    I'll confess, this irony had been lost on me. This is spectacularly astute.
     
  12. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    The guy was exec producer for Avengers, Age of Ultron, Iron Man 1&2, Mogli...

    He has enough qualification to be above questioning of this kind.
     
  13. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    There's a lot of non-white men who also has a great qualification but mysteriously Lucasfilm just hire white men.


     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  14. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Fearless Vampire Killer star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Consider the source. NOTHING can be questioned. Everything has been done at irreproachable optimal levels. Every choice made has been the best choice... nay, the only choice. Not a single detail could possibly have ever been handled better. There is nothing to discuss. I'll close the forums down.
     
  15. Jozgar

    Jozgar Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Maybe that wouldn’t be such a bad idea. As it is, this thread too frequently devolves into moral crusading, reductionist fallacies, and witch hunting. It’s a shame because this is such an important topic to discuss.
     
  16. Dame sans merci

    Dame sans merci Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2016
    Look, as I said in my above post, I think Favreau is great. But at this point Lucas Film now have a pretty public diversity hiring issue. In announcing this today - on International womens' day of all things - they've shown a serious lack of judgement and created bad, rather than good, publicity that's blown back on Favreau himself. They're incredibly dense.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  17. cerealbox

    cerealbox Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    I'm not sure the timing of the news could have been helped.

    Today is also Disney shareholder meeting day apparently.

    So this news was going to come out regardless.

    As for the subject itself.......
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  18. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Fearless Vampire Killer star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Correct. It is a case of unfortunate coincidental irony. The news, itself, can be judged on its own merits.
     
  19. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
  20. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Ryan Coogler or Patty Jenkins mysteriously could not be approached I guess.

    I like Favreau too, and I look forward to the series, but that isn’t the point, especially not after the white male director of TLJ was blatantly obvious in his favoring of the white male lead at the expense of both the female and black leads.

    I would just like to see more of an effort made at hiring qualified female directors and directors of color. I don’t believe for a second that the white male is always the best qualified and hiring anyone not white and male would be “pandering” (a statement that implies that the white male is always the best qualified).
     
    Miriedis, Kurenai24, unicorn and 6 others like this.
  21. Hazevamp

    Hazevamp Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2016
    IMO, I don't care who they hire, if this guy is right for the job then so be it as people shouldn't get jobs based on gender and race. But I feel a bit vindicated with this Favreau news. I said a long time ago not to believe Kathleen Kennedy's promise to hire a female director. At this point, I don't get why people still believe anyone in Hollywood. [face_laugh]
     
  22. sls062286

    sls062286 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 10, 2016
    Itd be nice if we lived in a perfect world where that could happen. Unfortunately woman and minorities have been held back for so long (and still are) that a proportionate number haven't had the opportunity to get into certain, yes sometimes that means they get preference sometimes. A great analogy is that you can't give some runners a head start in the race and the still expect the fastest runner will still win.
     
  23. cerealbox

    cerealbox Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    Only commenting on your two examples. I'm pretty sure Ryan and Patty are busy working on their sequels for the next two years.

    So it's not like they could grab those particular two. But I understand what you're saying.
     
  24. Hazevamp

    Hazevamp Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2016
    That's not a good analogy because someone can start running first and still lose to the faster runner. We see it all the time in those baton races.

    No one is stopping women and minorities from writing a script, getting film equipment and making what they want. A lot of these white male filmmakers started out doing just that, some with no money or support. Perhaps, instead of begging for inclusion, POC and women should start writing and directing what they want and strive to make something on par or better than Star Wars. Don't get me wrong, I understand the desire you feel, I just think it's directed at the wrong thing. The world doesn't owe anyone anything and Disney and Lucasfilm should not be obligated to hire people based on surface appearances.

    Besides, I don't put much stock in Kathleen Kennedy's hiring decisions, she hired JJ and Rian. If anything, she'll hire a female director that's just as bad as those two anyway.
     
    Darth Vain likes this.
  25. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    He witnessed murder but in a society who were (seemingly) beyond the influence of the FO & the ills of the galaxy. At Canto Bight he saw systemic societal corruption & oppression. I think that's a valid distinction.
    IDK. It's established that Finn had been conditioned & sheltered from the real world. I can't see what's wrong with having his eyes opened to some of those issues.
    Which is why scenes such as those with Finn & Rose on Canto Bight are important.
    IMO he has very adequate Star Wars levels of emotional complexity. These movies aren't supposed to present a deep dive into people's morality, politics etc. It's space opera. A fairy tale. Should probably look elsewhere for deeper psychological profiles.
    Disagreeing with you can be perilous, but here goes. Firstly, for it to be deflection I would need to've raised the subject. I did not. Someone else made a comparison between TLJ & BP & I voiced my opinion on it. I thought that's how open discussion forums are supposed to work.

    Secondly, I'm amazed that you think Finn so far in the ST is cowardly. A character who has the strength to overcome years of conditioning imposed on him from birth. Who places himself in mortal danger in each movie in order to save a person or people he cares about. To the point of reckless abandon resulting in serious injury or near-death experiences. Also, you constantly throw around the label of janitor & make mop references. That's not exactly elevating the debate.

    Finally, your one sentence summary of all of my points from the other day about BP is deliberately reductive & designed to trivialize them. It's a tired method we see all the time in our silly conversations about SW. I wouldn't have thought I'd see that regarding far more important issues such as those. As you know, there were many other points made. Most of which were not invented by me. They've been written about recently by various people (OC) who have some issues with that movie.