ST Diversity in the Sequel Trilogy (see warning on page 11)

There's already one: http://boards.theforce.net/threads/diversity-in-the-anthologies-see-op-warning.50042803/

 

Apparently, and I posted in that one. Things you forget .

 

Pretty interesting video on "strong female characters" and what is considered "strong" overall.

 

@Blastaar

For as much as I criticize how easily Rey learns the force and kicks everyone's butt without any training I do think Lucasfilm has done a good job of making her emotional and vulnerable while also being a fighter. I think Wonder Woman and Jyn Erso pulled off that balancing act better but Rey still has both.

Characters like Black Widow, the Resident Evil chick and the Underworld chick would be examples of a badass heroine with no emotions or vulnerability.

 

Even Selene ("underworld chick") had vulnerable traits though. I agree about rey. Her biggest flaw is her lack of backstory, motivations, and her unearned invincibility. IMO.

 

I can't touch on Underworld Selene and Resident Evil Alice. But with Black Widow, it's simply because she's a supporting character and never the lead protagonist.

@Blastaar I think Rey's "unearned invincibility" is more because she's pulled from Anakin's mold than Luke's.

Anakin and Rey are more Force "anomalies" brought up to bring balance to the Force.

Luke and Kylo, however, are Force "consequences." Born from the bloodline of the previous force born anomaly. Their birth and power aren't initiated by the force. But they are used by force users to complete their plans. Luke, by Obi Wan and Yoda. And Kylo by Snoke.

If what Snoke said in TLJ is true, Rey is more like Anakin than Luke in potential. And Anakin was always potentially powerful. His Jedi training was more about discipline than growing strength. Unlike Luke and Kylo. Who trained to get stronger in the force.


Then again, I could be wrong. As Luke in TLJ, compared Rey's potential to Kylo's.

 

Post Arnold Schwartzenegger and Rambo 80s era, I'd say so.

Otherwise they're looked upon as B movies at best.

 

I do. I hate it when the male hero is overly stoic. I find it boring. Newt Scamander was a fantastic (no pun intended) masculine hero. His drive to safe guard magical creatures is central to his character. I think the best characters overall are always the ones that are fully fleshed out people. Ellen ripley and Sarah Connor are not characters I would label as "strong female", because there is so much more to them than their strength. Sarah is incredibly vulnerable, yet she has some of hardest scenes in T2. In fact, the money shot that EVERYONE loved from the trailers was her cocking that pump action with one arm.

 

well....yeah i wouldn't consider those good examples of emotion. Those are mostly just crappy writing. If a male hero broke down and started crying when the villain started telling them they come from nothing, i'd probably start laughing and slamming popcorn in my mouth.

 

But Rey did the same thing in TFA when Maz told her, that deep down she knows the truth, that her family wasn't coming back.

So this is all consistent with Rey's characterization.

Edit: see godisawesome post

 

@cerealbox Maz wasn't taunting and insulting her. That's the dfference.

 

Different framing, different writing.

In TFA, Rey’s emotional turmoil was caused by the vision (not by Maz), and the realization that the people she was waiting for was not coming back, as well as she rejecting the lightsaber and the responsibilities that came with it.

In TLJ, her emotional turmoil was caused by "Ben" and whatever Ben said. Rey started crying because “Ben” didn’t want to go with her. The “please don’t go this way” *sobs* came before her one-day serial killer boyfriend called her nobody, which of course led her to cry even more. Because of the way the scene was scripted, framed and acted, it felt less as Rey realizing something she already knew, and more about a girl reacting to meanie words from her abusive partner.

 

Am I the only one who would love to see an anthology movie about one of the Clone Wars Jedi who arent Anakin or Obiwan? Luminara, Kitt Fisto, Shaak Ti, Mace. They could do so much world building and Force lore. I kind of thought thats the kind of thing they use the anthology movies for. RO was a good start but now it seems they are just going to tell the backstory of popular characters.

 

@godisawesome
Yeah, the part of “she knew all along about her parents” became redundant after TFA, and TLJ’s attempt to recycle that not came after a movie that already did the bulk of that, but it was framed in a story more concerned about building up Kylo Ren and answering the audience than on exploring the dramatic impact on Rey’s character. Her “they’re nobodies” reaction contributes to the shallowness of the writing of her character. It comes across as her number one concern being whether or not her parents were famous people, instead of the fact that they were bad people or abandoned her.

 

Lol. I was reading up on how bad Solo failed at the box office, and how someone's said it's not expected to reach past 250m... remember when a bunch of people were saying it was gonna be bigger than Black Panther?

@godisawesome @La Calavera

You guys are both right. TFA already (for the most part) put Rey and Finn in positions where they were at the very least MORE PREPARED to move on from their fears and naturally come to accept their new positions in the Resistance. But instead Rian rehashed a lot of their emotional conflicts which ended up wasting time and being poorly executed in the long run. And, of course, gave most of any meaning development to the young white male character.

Hell, TLJ could've just inserted the Rey hologram scene to show Finn at least willing to stay and fight with the Resistance with the mindset to reunite and fight with her. Same with Han sticking around to keep Leia safe in ESB, But as he's with the Resistance, he becomes more inspired on his own to fight with them all. Instead of being demonized and shamed into staying with them.

Rey could've still been upset about her parents, having gone from Finn and the very accepting Resistance, to someone more standoffish and cold as Luke, but showed more resilience when Kylo tried to use it against her. Put her in the position where the audience still sees her on her own dealing with these issues, and isn't sure how exactly Rey will deal with her fears along with Kylo's advances, but then show how she's steeled herself by the time Kylo finds out.

So we still could have that essence of emotional conflict just like any other hero, that allows them to respectively find their destinies without being belittled by Rose or Kylo. Both could be inspired not only by the thought of reuniting, but also as they see how desperate the Resistance is and how they're being picked off slowly. How much the Resistance needs them. And by the time Rey and Finn reunite, they're shown to have become more resilient to their fears and worries now that they're back together.


But nope.

 

"keep askin' Disney and Lucasfilm for 'em! Believe it or not, they listen" really? So I want to Lucasfilm treat Rey, Finn, Poe and Rose better and a spinoff with a poc protagonist

 

I hope this as well.

Temura is awesome, and IMO he deserves more screentime in the GFFA. Not to mention that would be perfect for continuity. Which, honestly it seems like LFL is definitely doing their homework in terms of continuity between all these new films. Anyone who's seen Rogue One can surely agree!

If he's to play Boba, the only thing that would put in a road block there is his age. Boba is much younger in the time period between ROTS and ANH than Temura is now. If they set the film later, like after the events of ROTJ (interesting idea but unlikely), it would work though...

 

He's at the perfect age to play a clone veteran between ANH and ROTS.

A Kenobi movie could start with Imperial Army officer CC-2224 being stranded or stationed on Tatooine, with part of the protagonist's challenge being to avoid an encounter.

 

I'd love to see Labrynth of Evil on screen (which includes Kenobi) and set prior to ROTS.

Otherwise, yet seeing Clone Imperial Troopers immediately after ROTS would be interesting.

As for this thread, wouldn't one better way to have diversity in the ST, to have a Jedi Order of multiple aliens and peoples from across the galaxy? That and showing us more worlds/planets. One thing you always noticed was the variety before. I really was hoping we'd see a young cast of Jedi trained by/under Luke.

 

I think the ST has gone a long way to giving us diversity in front of the camera if not behind it. That's what they need to work on but that is also a reflection of the film industry as a whole. But LFL can and should do it.

@DarthTalonx , Luceno's novel is perhaps my favorite of the PT era Legends. Would love to see a feature or a two part made for streaming film.