ST Diversity in the Sequel Trilogy (see warning on page 11)

Is it "butthurt" or is it just people wanting the only untarnished hero of the OT to make it out okay? I mean, I'm fine with Lando being in it, I just don't want them to turn him into a loser and then kill him off, that would kinda suck. And that's what already happened to my favorite Star Wars hero.

 

Yeah it's more of a "can at least ONE of them have NOT had a life that went to crap completely?" Which isn't unreasonable. And yeah, if Lando is to come back then he should have an important role. Note that I said "important" and not "action heavy."

Also I've heard some people be concerned about Billy Dee's age/health, but you could get around that by just giving him a role where he doesn't have to do a ton of physical stuff. Lando doesn't need to be out there running around shooting a blaster anymore, he can be a leader/power broker easily.

 

Butthurt I think is a fair word with all of this negativity and vitriol. I get that fans want what they want in the SW stories, much like Kathy Bates in Misery; but whether that is a healthy expectation is another issue. It is a movie series, and heroes will come and go; fans won't always get their way. Dying isn't being "tarnished." I know people like the characters from the OT; it came out when I was a kid, and I love them. But do you want some fairy tale where all of the good guys live happily ever after? Do you want a predictable, agreeable thing to happen to heroes all of the time? Seems pretty boring.

If I were SO CYNICAL about SW that I didn't even want great characters like Lando to come back, I would mostly lose interest in new SW movies and just watch old ones. I watch them because I enjoy seeing what will happen next; I'm not going to get so down and out over characters dying that I don't even want to see them in the movies. This is supposed to be fun; there is plenty of other misery in the world; if you get so upset over this, maybe you should move on to some other leisure interest.. It isn't the moviemaker's obligation to meet any particular fan's expectation. We have people threatening the lives of filmmakers over this crap, it's like come on! I don't come in with those kind of preconceived ideas about what will happen, that would be miserable.

 

Dying isn't being tarnished, but having your characters regressed and everything that you worked for utterly obliterated in favor of the same old conflict all over again, that IS being tarnished. And that's where some TLJ defenders slip up, they act like it's a zero sum game.

They act like it's either "hero's live happily ever after with zero conflict" or "everything is destroyed and we do a repeat of what came before." And quite simply, that's not the case. No one reasonably expected that there'd NEVER be conflict again, you kind of need it for a ST to happen. BUT, the complete slash and burn, scorched-Earth to the OT's accomplishments, and basically doing "Rebels vs. Empire 2.0," well THAT'S another matter.

And yes, filmmakers aren't obligated to do anything, but fans also aren't obligated to like something just because "it's the story that they chose to tell," nor are said fans "entitled" if they don't blindly like everything and anything.

And bringing up a TINY minority of clearly disturbed people sending death threats also ignores that the VAST MAJORITY of people who dislike things have legitimate reasons for doing so. In other words, it's a strawman that does nothing but distract from the proper discussion.

 

OK, but that is you characterization of what has happened, and your idea of what is tarnished, not some universal definition; I think that is a bit histrionic to say it "total slash and burn of the OT." We haven't even seen how it all turns out yet.

I wasn't even referring to TLJ specifically, but it always seems to come back to that for a lot of people; it's like everything is colored negative because of one movie- we can't have a conversation that doesn't come back to "TLJ sucks." TLJ sucks so bad, we want to banish Lando from the series in case he gets similar treatment, which is ridiculously negative.

It is fine to not like the movie, and yes, the threats and deplorable behavior can't be attributed to typical fans, but they are an example of just how out of hand it has gotten with all of this negativity. Or rather another example, like being so negative, you go on slash and burn negative tangents about how it's a bad idea for great characters returning to SW movies (because you might not like what happens to them). That sort of thing has gotten excessive outside of the extreme POV's, that's what I was saying; hating on Lando's return is the perfect example. Not anything to do with whether or not "TLJ sucks," that is some strawman of your own. You didn't even really elude to the main point I was making. My point was that this negativity is premature and unwarranted.

 

A TON of the excitement around Lando coming back is concerned with his relationship to Kylo, aka the "UNCA WANWO" scene from Last Shot. A sizable amount of folks don't care that Lando has his own stories and characterizations and motivations over 30+ years that could be explored; they just want him to be there for Kylo's development and story.

Nevermind that Lando miiiiight not care about Kylo after he murdered his father and caused his mother far too much grief. They expect nothing to have changed from the scene concerning 2-year-old Kylo and don't care about Lando beyond it.

We could write multiple essays about everything that's wrong with the above mess.

 

I liked Lando a lot in the EU. He became successful and had a family. I'm going to be eternally unhappy if they make him anything less.

 

I don't know that Lando is going to be physically feeble with the tech they have now. Christopher Lee (i.e. Count Dooku) was not in any kind of shape for physicality during the PT; basically everything he did was someone else. They put his face onto someone else digitally in a lot of those light saber battles. That along with stunt doubles would actually make it feasible for Lando to be somewhat of an action character even of ol' Billy Dee isn't up to it..

 

He will be played by The Rock Johnson and they will CGI BDW's face on him.

 

Uh....I would not like the scene, following that.


Has everyone forgotten Kylo's track record with old guys?

 

https://www.themarysue.com/finn-poe-demonization/

"Okay, in concept, the idea of a mock court martial for Poe after the events of The Last Jedi, which actually occurred at SDCC, is funny, but in practice? When you sentence him to ten years in a penal colony and joke about the death penalty? It’s really not funny any more. It becomes actually quite frustrating.

The fact Rian Johnson chose to deliver a lesson about machismo and mansplaining through one of the franchise’s first Latino lead characters is hard enough to swallow, especially since Poe began his life as an example of non toxic masculinity in Greg Rucka’s Before the Awakening, every Poe Dameron comic up to the more recent issues, and even in The Force Awakens itself."

EXACTLY

When Bryan Young tweeted about it as if it's the most funny thing ever I was like "????"

 

I agree, it's not funny. Poe should actually be hanged for mutiny.

Oh, the article mentioned how its tough loving Finn and dealing with people talking about how the film would have benefited from his death. The film would have benefited, imo. I was absolutely cheering it on.

Probably because of the old Revolver Ocelot time paradox, but myself and many others have suggested many variations on the idea that Anakin should have been expelled, not trained to begin with, or even quietly murdered after TPM, when he was nine.

That goes quadruple for Ahsoka.

I don't talk about it because I find the movie too dull to even think about, much less discuss. I haven't visited the RO forum in months (it doesn't even exist anymore, it's been folded into Anthologies), and I only stuck around for a few days after I saw RO, finding the discussion dull, the hostility to criticism high, and the activity low. (I find those three things often go together)

I'm glad this is mentioned because I see Finn in TFA/TLJ and Han in ANH as the same thing, and I defend them both.

It would put him and me out of our misery. It was so bad I wanted him to die just so it wouldn't get worse. It would have been a mercy kill.


But overall, the article describes a lot of behavior I am wholly unaware of, not being a member of the Star Wars fandom, and being entirely unaware of any Star Wars comments that are made outside of this forum (and even many comments that were made in this forum, having not visited this forum during the lead up to release or the first six months afterward. I missed all that.)

 

They can have Lando kill Kylo at the beginning of the movie.

We can tell angry fans that they're just upset that things went against their expectations.

 

If, and I mean IF, Naomi Ackie is playing a member of the FO rather than the Resistance, I hope that nobody gets mad simply at that.

Diverse people can play diverse characters, evil or good.

 

I watch Supergirl and last season the main villain trio were all women of color (asian, colombian/cuban and african american), some members of the fandom were upset by this but I find that overall villainy tends to lean towards white, mainly male actors, mixing that up is great to me. Though I can understand the want for more diverse heroes as well, which are also very white and male lol

 

You know...the only "butthurt" i constantly see, comes from people who can't seem to square with folks who have a different opinion about said movie. How often do I see snarky posts directed at posters for not singing praises for the film? Why does it bother you all so much? When i see someone talk about how much a "genius" or "visionary" RJ is, I feel no need to "hit em up" over their opinion that I disagree with. Guess i'm not "butthurt" enough about it.

You act like people here have always been cynical about star wars. Check the boards all throughout 2016. You'll notice it was only after December 15, 2017, that people got cynical about the ST. We saw han get reduced to his ANH self before being killed off. That was something most of us could live with. Then we saw the symbol of hope and heroism wallow in the mud for two hours before dying like a fart in the wind in the most meaningless and contrived ways. Now we hear rumors of lando coming back in IX, so naturally some us think, "uh oh....not lando too." For yours and many other people's information, it is most certainly the job of the film maker to meet at least basic expectations from fans. Otherwise what is the point? You don't sign up for the 8th sequel in a beloved multi million dollar franchise so that you can just do what you want. The current state of things shows how misguided that was.

Now i know this post is off topic, but i'm not the one who's comparing fans with different opinions to a psychopath character that tortured and murdered people in a steven king film. Talk about being butthurt.

 

It has nothing to do with "not singing praises to the film." Talk about twisting someone's words.

They are responsible for making the best film they can make, that is all. Fans are going to feel like they didn't get their expectations met no matter what. You aren't going to please everyone. The only reliable polls regarding TLJ, and for that matter TFA indicate that most people liked them, even if you have some angry screaming fans that didn't get what they wanted.

I explained this post a few posts down the page in a way that responds to what you are saying, I don't see any reason to repeat myself. The level of negativity around Lando coming back is ridiculous, that's what I was saying.

 

So let people have their opinions. It shouldn't affect your enjoyment of the film in any way. Some people hated rogue one. You think it even registers on my radar? Does it diminish the film in my eyes? nope. They are fully welcome to their opinions and even more welcome to voice them. They have just as much right as you do, to do so without being compared to fictional psychopaths. The level of negativity regarding lando's return is do to how the original characters have been handled thus far. People's feelings on lando in the ST are reactionary. Everyone was very psyched to see him in solo.

 

Umm... this is a forum where people discuss these things. It isn't about letting them have their opinions, of course they can. The negativity is excessive, that was my point. That's MY opinion.

Being a little snarky is part of the fun. Lighten up.