ST Diversity in the Sequel Trilogy (see warning on page 11)

I have and they all tell me the same thing....because they want to relate to the person on screen. I find that a strange answer because I can relate to any race simply because we're all human. I'm not a force sensitive white female but I can relate to Rey's wanting a family because everyone wants a family. I'm not a deserter from the military with dark skin but I can relate to Finn not wanting to be a pawn and wanting to do the right thing because most people want to do the right thing.

 

Its not about relating to their history or struggle. Everyone can do that. Its seeing that people who looks like them can be heroes, they can be looked up to by kids.

 

You can absolutely relate to people of different genders and ethnicities. The problem is about the lack of representing people of different cultures and races in Hollywood. The problem is a lack of visibility.

This is a story Diego Luna shared on twitter.



Viola Davis on Hollywood casting (or lack thereof) women of color as leads in film and TV.






The story for this one is the boy asked his mom to buy this Finn figure simply because the toy "looked like me"

 

From a Pakistani-American actor after seeing Rogue One:

 

Well all I've got to say is I don't need to see fellow Native American's being heroic on screen to know my race can be heroic. But maybe that's because I don't define myself by my race. I refuse to. And I'll leave it at that before I end up insulting someone.

 

Because, really.. .seeing people like them as heroes was just one example, specific to Rey and Finn, since I didn't want to get off-topic and I don't have all the words to explain why representation can be important for certain people. I can go on about job opportunies for different actors , like what JediAce1 psoted about Viola Davis, to how seeing Whoopi, the first black woman to be a movie superstar, inspired Lupita to become an actor too. I can go on about how the media contribute in selling the idea of who should be considered beautiful and thus accpetable ( women as dark skinned as Lupita are usually not considered.) and so on...

But yes, the only thing to get from all this is that we don't need to see POC as heroes to know that POC can be heroes.

 

Rabs, here's another point to at least consider: there are folks out there who have negative views of certain groups because all they're exposed to are negative views, negative reporting, negative representation - the "all 'so and so' are ;this or that'," It helps society, not just individuals, see that heroes and villains, bosses and worker bees, rich and poor come in all shapes, sizes, genders and colors.

And for some, not seeing representation equals reality and spills over into so many areas - employment and politics, to name a few. I don't want to get off topic, but if "them" behave like "so," they "deserve" (or "don't deserve") respect, or a fair say, or a chance, even.

 

on a subconscious level if in the media/entertainment/huge culturally relevant films/etc. shows a majority of people who don't look like you (for instance the hero is always white, if there's an important romantic drama it's between two white people, etc.) while people who do look like you are always in more stereotypical or supporting roles... your brain will build all these associations (our brains can't help it) and it can make you feel on this deep level like you aren't worth as much or something. ofc on a more conscious level you can obviously combat that and remind yourself it's bs. but all the underlying little implications still can get at you. i don't want to exaggerate the significance of media/entertainment but also i don't want to underscore that it has a real effect. (imo)

 

At the same time, social networking trash completely works against any kind of diversity exposure and progress, and perpetuates stereotypes worse than anything in media and public discourse ever. Every single thing gets associated with a race, whether it is a brand of clothing or a coffee chain or a type of food or music or anything, retweeted, shared, liked. A lot of movies are following suit.
It is infectious, in that as I watch movies, I am on edge and everything that happens has me immediately imagining what will be said about it. For example, if Rey is shown defeating someone in battle, I know there will be more talk of her being a "Mary Sue," etc., yet none of that came to mind when I watched "The Force Awakens."

 

Here is a video that perfectly sums up what you're speaking on.

 

I'm mentally stronger than that which has caused me to be somewhat insensitive to those who aren't. I need to work on that. But I have suffered racism on a level most these days never will and it caused me to become the very same thing....a creature of hate. Now I no longer care about race. But I do need to remind myself that some of my views are extreme. Most people's race is a huge part of who they are and I can be blind to that sometimes because I have abandoned the idea of race...at least when it comes to defining one's self. Again, something I need to work on.

 

Well said. Media is a powerful mind-altering drug and has a deep impact, especially on kids. If a black kid sees Finn losing continously, he may begin thinking he's less than white people. That's how it starts.

 

Rabs i feel it affecting me... it's like this nasty cipher in society... i'm trying to free myself in general from all the "social messages" (to individuate) but it's a struggle. and when i watched that video with the children just now i can see little hits of it in myself and it causes pain. i think this is one of many reasons why i am completely for diverse representation that reflect the real human population in all its colors because i feel that this has been harmful to perhaps most people. though obviously victims of racism much more so.

but i agree with you in that we are all so much more than this.

 

oncafar I can be insensitive sometimes without meaning to be. It's a flaw...one of many...that needs work. I certainly didn't mean to imply diversity was a bad thing, and I do apologize to anyone I might've hurt if that's how I came across. My experiences with racism and brutality...mainly the hate it filled my heart with and the violence that hate drove me to... has lead me to have unconventional views on race. Again, I didn't mean to offend anyone.

 

Rabs sorry. i didn't mean to imply as much as i probably implied... or perhaps i shouldn't have. i'm approaching foot-in-mouth territory as is my way...

 

As a fellow poster (and mod), I really appreciate the civil and thoughtful posts above. We need to discuss troublesome or divisive issues, not talk AT each other, but with each other. That's how we broaden our horizons and do our little bit to make the world a more understanding place for all.

 

Thank you for posting this. As I was reading through, I was just about to post similar words. Kids watching TV and movies over time start linking things and there's a very insidious internalization based on what they are viewing. Remember, there's is a point in time children are not aware that movies/TV aren't real. The brain is designed to form patterns and if enough reinforcement shows one specific group as having high intelligence, leadership skills, heroic, etc, while showing other groups as insignificant, weak, prone to crime, or even well-intentioned but intellectually inferior it can start to affect how you see yourself, and how you are seen by others if it isn't checked.

If you are accustomed to seeing yourself on film and there's a healthy dose of all of the above, it's easy to be less sensitive to others who almost always see themselves in a less flattering light. It's also almost entirely expected that any 'legitimate' narratives include their representation. That could be why a Michael B. Jordan was rejected as Johnny Storm, but Nikolaj Coster Waldau could play Horus in Gods of Egypt; or why Friends could run 8 seasons without interacting much with PoC in New York city, but there was backlash with Luke Cage set in Harlem because there was only one white main cast member.

 

afrojedi - i couldn't stand how 'gods of egypt' had all of these people who probably don't at all resemble how most people in ancient egypt looked playing the main characters! like both main male god characters and ra especially. it was so terrible. i wanted to be in ancient egypt not in whatever that was.

 

What's interesting though is the growing importance of the Chinese market, and if American movies will continue to cater to the Chinese people in order to make more money. Chinese people are, like many Asians, more interested in seeing Asian or white heroes rather than heroes of color. A great example when it comes to Star Wars was how Finn was completely excluded from the Chinese poster for TFA, and also completely excluded from a few Japanese trailers for TFA.

While western audiences are getting increasingly more and more open to seeing heroes of color (I'm pretty sure Black Panther, for example, will be extremely successful when it hits theatres next year), movie studios are also going to have to cope with a growing catering to Chinese audiences. Black Panther will actually be a very interesting experiment, since the MCU is already massively popular among Chinese people. If Black Panther flops in China, we will know why.

 

My thoughts exactly......unfortunately.


Another thing is that John is headlining the sequel to Pacific Rim, in which the first one did great in China. Especially with the Hong Kong setting.

 

And I believe that all comes from conditioning. There is most likely a reciprocal component to preferences within most ethnicities, the one possible constant being white characters being more acceptable. That's another reason to make compelling movies and not actively limit roles.

In the 80s I watched the movie The Right Stuff almost daily. I wonder how many bright men and women of all ethnicities would have pursued a careers in STEM if Katherine Johnson was portrayed in the movie. How it would have helped to counter perceptions through that film and the effect of allowing viewers to believe at an early age that that career path is very possible. The circular reinforcement of reality and art on reality moving forward.

 

(said I wasn't gonna post here so please don't berate me)

One of my Great-Grandmothers was full blooded Cherokee Indian. (Tennessee area)

Another Great Great grandmother was full Irish.

In lots of old westerns indians\native Americans were depicted are mean and evil.

However, there are other such as Tonto and Pocahontas that were not depicted in a bad light.

The Irish are typically depicted as, shall I sat wading ankle deep in the kiddie pool of intelligence.

I treated none of these as neither an obstacle nor a crutch.

Nothing wrong with being proud of where you came from.

Just can't let that cause you to overshadow who you are now and where you are going in the future.

Peace.