Amph Django Unchained

Discussion in 'Community' started by Adam of Nuchtern, Oct 12, 2012.

  1. Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2003
    star 7
    I was surprised at how well the rap music worked actually. Obviously I love hip hop/rap but I just didn't think it would work in a spaghetti western during slave times. But damn if it didn't fit in perfectly. Tarantino really knows what the hell he's doing when it comes to music.

    And movies in general, but you get what I'm saying. lol
    DarthTunick likes this.
  2. AAAAAH Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    this was great. the only thing that bothered me was how they broke the momentum of the shootout scene by having him be captured and go through the whole rigmarole with the aussies and then come back later and clean up. why did quentin do that?
  3. Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2000
    star 7
    I don't know but the absolute worst thing in the whole movie was Tarantino's cameo. I mean, I like a good director cameo, but let's hope we never have to here Quentin's lame attempt at an Australian accent again. That was dreadful.
  4. AAAAAH Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    yeah when i saw him i almost groaned out loud.
  5. Blithe Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2003
    star 4
    Does that include the women and children?
  6. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 6
    well in the article he points out that women are not exempted responsibility in "Django", if they are complicit. children would be tougher to parse
  7. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 6
    Red Letter Media review is up. havent watched it yet but i'd imagine its more your speed, havac and co

    wocky, it wont be your speed but then, few things in the modern world are
  8. AAAAAH Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    i liked the red letter media segments better when he/they didn't appear in them.
  9. DarthMane2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 4
    What was up with the masked chick who was part of the hill billy posse? Last time you see her she's looking at pics of slaves, for what ever reason, then Django bust in and starts shooting. Couldn't tell if she died, and it looked like somebody made it through the back window.
  10. AAAAAH Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    yeah i remember thinking the same thing during the scene. i decided later that she was killed offscreen.
  11. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    Inglorious Basterds: "European Jews should have assassinated Hitler."
    Django Unchained: "American slaves should have revolted and killed their owners."

    Let's face it. These are extremely stupid premises for movies.

    Also, Django Unchained is fatally marred by bad storytelling. The gladiator-slave-ripped-apart-by-dogs moment made me give up on the movie. Shultz tries to intervene. Django overrules him, seals the slave's fate. Shultz is left alone as the film's sole moral compass, setting up the need for a Django-Shultz confrontation, which unfortunately never takes place. The film attempts to let Django somehow shoot his way out of his personal culpability, but falls completely flat in my view, leaving me feeling soiled. The film takes a big smelly dump on its audience and its own characters.
  12. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 6
    i dont think the "authorial intent" (and i think your quibble is a rare case where this means something) was "should have", so much as "wouldnt it be cathartic to watch what would happen if they did?"

    tarantino has always made movies about movies - what would be fun to watch, not what should/would/could happen
    Last edited by Rogue_Ten, Jan 3, 2013
    tom likes this.
  13. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    Not that my opinion means anything, but I don't see it as being cathartic.

    There's nothing wrong with making shallow movies that showcase styles of other movies. Also, there's nothing wrong with making tongue in cheek wish fulfillment revenge fantasies about Hitler and slavery. I'm just not sure whether the 60s-70s nostalgic cinephile style plus Tarantino's trademark artificial-sounding dialogue elevates into an art form. Just like no one else makes movies like the ones Woody Allen is making these days, but who would want to?

    True, it doesn't have to elevate. It just has to sell tickets, which Tarantino does marginally well. I would be more convinced if the stories were better. I wanted a Django character I could root for. That would have made it a real spaghetti western. Instead we get the guy who arbitrarily goads his enemy into the torture murder of an innocent victim. Yuck.
  14. Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2000
    star 7
    How is that even remotely the premise of Django Unchained?
    Souderwan likes this.
  15. Havac Some Guy Who Moderates Lit

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 7
    How is that bad storytelling? Schultz's moral sensibilities lead him to try to stop the scene, but Django stops him -- because he's able to focus on the bigger game they're playing, and doesn't want them behaving out of character in front of Candie. Django doesn't take action because it's never been his role, and is not in his power, to save everybody. He's not a messianic figure here to end the scourge of slavery. He's here to rescue his wife, and his actions in that scene stem from his focus on that. The idea that Django is immoral for refusing to risk his chance to save his wife from slavery, and not just acting immorally but acting so immorally that it ruins the movie, is a pretty big leap. He's making a hard choice between two lousy options. That's not something to be morally condemned lightly, and the argument that he has a higher moral duty to a stranger than to his wife is itself questionable. Django is, like your typical spaghetti Western protagonist, a hard man for a hard place and a hard time, someone who may do what good he's capable of but who remains focused on his personal mission and is able to set his jaw and look past the harshness of his setting. That's the point of his character. He gets that the system is bigger than he is. He can't fix it. He can just focus on saving his wife, and he'll shoot who he needs to shoot and ignore what evils he has to ignore to get that done. Schultz thinks he's that hard man, but as he finds out when he stares slavery in the eye, he's much more sentimental than he'd thought, and he can't ignore it anymore. That makes him a moral compass in a way, sure, but . . . Django represents a different, and ultimately more effective, moral stance, not a failure of morality. If you want the character to be a savior figure stopping every injustice in his path . . . you're setting a damn high bar, one very few spaghetti Westerns, let alone films in general, will meet.
    Souderwan and Rogue1-and-a-half like this.
  16. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    Havac, you offer a compelling story. I just wish Tarantino had actually played the scene that way. Django crosses a fundamental line from playing a part to actually inhabiting that part. If this had been presented as a more straightforward moral problem in which Django has an opportunity to intervene but doesn't wish to blow his cover, then I might agree with you. But Django interrupts an attempt at intervention from a third party. He could have played it differently, could have pretended to get into a fight with his partner over his odd sentimentality, for example. Instead of non-intervention, there's active sabotage of an attempt at intervention. And then, beyond that, Django goes the extra mile to make sure the slave dies in a gruesome, painful way.

    The idea that these actions make Django morally "more effective" is absurd and itself perverse.
  17. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    Just as an aside, the moral choice at the heart of Looper, by far the best sci fi/fantasy movie of 2012, is an example of how to get that kind of stuff right.
  18. Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2003
    star 7
    I felt like that scene was showing how someone in Django's position was numbed to this kind of stuff through the years. Especially when he told Candie something along the lines of "He's just not used to seeing a man ripped apart by dogs" when referring to Schultz. Schultz doesn't live in this world. This is new and outrageous to him. I got the impression that Django was basically saying "but I am" after that last line. I don't think this makes him a horrible person. How is it any different than a soldier suffering from PTSD? The soldier will be scarred by what he's seen. He'll be triggered from time to time and the memories hurt. But at the same time if years after the war the soldier is taken hostage in a bank and watches another hostage get shot in the head, he's not gonna be affected the same way as some dude who hasn't been through that stuff before.

    Anyway, what I'm saying is this is too complicated an issue for you to just say "damn django sucks he should have totes done something there what a crap person he is lololol"
  19. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    It's more than that. First, the scene doesn't hinge on Django failing to act; it hinges on his active intervention in the situation, making it worse. Also, it calls into question what it is exactly that Tarantino is trying to accomplish in what I think anyone should admit is an extended and pivotal moment for the story. If it's really meant to be Shultz's moment, then the story might have been better if it had provoked some kind of schism between the two men as Shultz is revealed to be Django's moral superior. But this startling and horrific event just kind of evaporates in its effect on their relationship.
    Last edited by Jabbadabbado, Jan 4, 2013
  20. Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2003
    star 7
    How is he revealed to be Django's moral superior? Unless you're actually saying that PTSD can't possibly affect someone who has been a slave for 99% of their life. You're looking at one event in these people's lives and not considering everything that led up to the event.
  21. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    I'm looking at everything that Tarantino shows us, as those are the only things we're reasonably able to take into consideration. Based on Django's performance, he not only plays the part of slave trader expertly, but also identifies himself with it more or less completely. Maybe the point of the story is that Django thinks of his wife as chattel, with the plot being the process of taking possession of her. The story makes sense in that light. That would certainly be consistent with the timeframe.
  22. Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2003
    star 7
    It's weird how everyone else saw something completely different in that scene(and I'll assume your chattel remark is just you trolling at this point)
  23. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    no, it's a legitimate interpretation that would make more sense of that scene. However, I'm reasonably confident that's not what Tarantino was shooting for.
  24. Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2000
    star 7
    You think Django would have been willing to let that other slave get killed if he thought of his wife as property? That was the point of the scene to me. It was just revealing the absolute depths he was willing to go to get his wife back. That and the fact that he had learned control (consider the previous incident with the Brittle Brothers where Django nearly gets both himself and Schultz killed because he reacts in an emotional, more morally correct manner). The film is about Django's progress to that kind of control in contrast to Schultz' change, which is exactly opposite. Django starts the film driven by emotion and ends it by being a coolly calculating man. Schultz starts the film as a calculating, amoral man and ends it a morally outraged martyr.
    Souderwan and Havac like this.
  25. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    I loved this film so much. Every single performance in the film is perfection, and the soundtrack is so fitting in every single scene. It's probably my new favorite Tarantino film and one of the best fims of 2012.