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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Do current events affect your gaming habits?

Discussion in 'Archive: Games' started by TheWampas1138, Oct 25, 2002.

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  1. TheWampas1138

    TheWampas1138 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 2, 2002
    First, a disclaimer:

    If you read any of the threads about mature rated games, such as the BMX game with strippers, or anything with violence, eventually you'll stumble across a post by me stating that I am not in favor of censorship. That holds true as long as I feel the subject matter isn't illegal, and I don't consider taste a factor in making something illegal. Second, if you read the GTA threads, you'll probably notice posts by me saying how much I love GTA3, and how much I was, or am, excited about Vice City. So keep those facts in mind: Big supporter of GTA, not in favor of censorship. Last, please take this post seriously, or just read it and don't answer.

    I was wondering if anyone is a bit like me and feels affected by current events. I've been excited for Vice City for a long time now, pretty much as soon as I put down the controller to GTA3, which I bought the day it was released. I loved GTA3 for all the right reasons, but also for all the wrong reasons. One of my favorite things was the random mayhem. Often I would tell myself that I was about to seriously do a mission, but then I would walk out of my hide out, pass through the bonuses I had unlocked, and it would auto wield whatever weapon I walked through first (usually grenades). Suddenly with weapon in hand, the evil glint would come to my eye, and I find myself throwing the grenades into the street. Sometimes I would walk out of the base in the first part of Liberty City, get close enough to Chinatown to see people, and snipe them. Which brings me to the problem. Maybe I'm sensitive to it because my parents and everyone I knew growing up still live in Maryland (I'm now in Wisconsin), and they are all in PG County which is where one of the shootings took place, and right below Montgomery County where a large number of them took place. And my father works in Virginia three days a week. So that made me very sensitive to the situation. Every time my phone would ring at some late hour, I would get a bit of a panic. The more I thought about it, the less excited I was about GTA4. All the things that I loved about GTA3 now sounded like bad ideas.

    It was a little different playing SOCOM because at least the people I was shooting in single player mode were clearly bad guys. But still, I had a strange sensation as I sniped them. I felt almost bad about enjoying the game.

    It's like when Ace Combat 4 came out last year. It was recently after the 9/11 attacks, and I remember hearing that the company quickly edited the commercials to remove footage of the planes hitting buildings. Ordinarilly when playing a flight game, if I accidentally strayed into a building, I would have watched the replay, but I found myself smashing the button to quickly skip past those moments.

    A similar thing happened when watching MI2 the other week. I popped it in, and suddenly remembered the opening scenes. I was watching it soon after the anniversary of the attacks, and the horrible images were fresh in my mind, so I quickly skipped the airplane scenes.

    Now, I will still buy GTA4, and I realize that it's a fictional world and no one is dead after I'm done playing, but I have to admit I will probably hesitate before just randomly shooting people through a scope. It's not that I think I'm evil, it's just... it might not seem like a fun thing to do for a while. I'm just wondering if anyone else has had similar feelings.

     
  2. jp-30

    jp-30 Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2000
    Excellent post TheWampas1138!


    I have often wondered about how WWII vets would think when they see their grandchildren playing computer games that recreate the horrors of being a soldier or pilot. I'm talking all the myriad of WWII FPS games, the MMORPG and combat flight sims.

    I must say the games that appeal to me more are fantasy / Sci-Fi settings (mostly Star Wars), but I've been known to get behind the cockpit of the odd P-51 from time to time.

    For me, being somewhat removed geographically from scenarios like school shootings, sniping serial killers, hijacked planes and battle frontlines, I don't tend to have a personal reaction to video games (or movies) that are similar to real life scenarios.

    Movies & TV shows that are pulled and/or censored in the wake of a tragedy annoy me too - there are obvious ones involving the Twin Towers, but also when there's a natural disaster or large accident in NZ and a TV show has a remotely similar plotline, it's pulled. But I can understand the families of the victims not wanting to be confronted with reminders dressed up as entertainment.

    Back to the question at hand - I can fully understand someone feeling guilt in gaining enjoyment from a fictional game scenario that bears a passing resemblance to a real life situation. That's human. I doubt I'd have enjoyed carmageddon so much if a member of my family had been killed in a hit-and-run accident.

    What I wouldn't want to see is gaming scenarios based on real life tragedies -> which leads me back to WWII. Is 55 years / 2 generations long enough between the actual events and a simulation for enjoyment? Certainly I would have little problem with a WWI flight sim, nor with medieval battles. Would I have a problem playing games based on Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan? Probably - though my relatives never fought in any of those places.

    So maybe it's the fact that plenty of people still on the planet have lived through WW2, and my grandfather is one of them...

    Not exactly current events affecting my gaming habits, but "real life" game scenarios making me a little uncomfortable at times.

    But, like anything, if I don't enjoy something, I won't do it. Maybe I'll revisit it at a later time when my personal circumstances change. GTA3 cutting a bit close to the bone at the moment? Uninstall it. Come back to it later. Play something different. How I spend your leisure time is entirely in my hands. Why do something that makes me feel guilty... :)
     
  3. Theedage

    Theedage Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2001
    Nope, doesn't affect me one bit. However, games that take place during real situations are kind of surreal (if done properly). This is like the Omaha beach mission in moh. Past that the games don't really make me feel bad in playing them or affect me at all. After all, they're just games.
     
  4. Nai

    Nai Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2002
    I can understand why some people (such as yourself, TheWampas1138) would feel that way and there's nothing wrong with that really. For me, though, there's a clear line between fiction and reality. In real life I feel bad for killing ants (I'm serious), but in GTA3 I'm always looking for new and sadistic ways to kill pedestrians.
     
  5. Jirin_Raman

    Jirin_Raman Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2002
    Interesting topic, TheWampas1138. I am going to agree with Nai, though, I have a clear understanding that games are in fact fantasy, and in no way, shape, or form a reality. While some of the situations and settings may very well mirror something that is true-to-life, the game itself is not. I think it is more of a spin that the media and the anti-gamers put out to give the gaming community a black eye, when they sling their mud about "too much violence, too much etc, etc".
     
  6. Darth_Reign

    Darth_Reign Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 7, 2001
    I don't want to sound callous, but I have to admit that what goes on in the world around me doesn't affect me emotionally in the slightest.

    September 11th didn't have any affects on my daily routine, I just got up watched it on the news as I was eating breakfast and then I wen't to school, and that was it. I really don't care about anything that goes on in the news anymore, because quite frankly it doesn't involve me in one bit. The only reason I watch the news is to find out the weather forecast.

    SO in short current events have absolutely no affect on my gaming habits. In Ace Combat I was quite happy to drop napalm on areas that resembled American cities and crash the jet into buildings that resembled those in the New York skyline.

     
  7. DarksiderGeorge

    DarksiderGeorge Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2002
    Not in any way. My gaming habits ARE
    HIGHLY effected by factors like TIME, MONEY and FRIENDS!! [face_mischief]
     
  8. Auraveda

    Auraveda Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 5, 2001
    Hmmm... interesting.

    I'd say it definitely does have some impact on me. I have not been playing GTA3 so much lately, but when I do I haven't been sniping. Previously it had been my favorite form of random mayhem. Now it just feels wrong.

    I don't have any relatives in Maryland, but I did live in Silver Spring (Montgomery County) Maryland for three years. So perhaps that is why this is affecting me somewhat. It seems more real to me because I used to live there. I had friends there. In contrast, I've never been to Moscow, I have no relatives in Moscow, so the hostages being held in that theater there mean less to me on a personal level. I understand that it is real and it is a horrible situation, but since I have no direct experience of Moscow the whole thing feels very unreal. It's like some bad TV show.

    Another example of this is when I visited Europe for the first and so far only time. I got to see in person so many things that I had only seen before on TV or in a book. A couple days after I got home my Dad happened to be watching some sort of Hitler documentary on the History Channel. One of the film clips showed Hitler walking around underneath the Arc de Triumph in Paris. I had just been there a couple weeks earlier! I had been standing in some of the same places that Hitler had. At that moment Hitler and consequently all of WW2 became much more real and scary to me. I also noticed that once I returned home that news from those parts of europe I had visited suddenly meant more to me because it seemed much more real, not like a bad TV show anymore.

    It's hard to believe anything I see on TV without some direct experience of the place or people involved.

    This brings up an interesting question. Since Vice City is modeled to some extent on Miami, how will this affect the playing experience of people who live in Miami? Will they have less fun playing Vice City? Or perhaps more?
     
  9. Dan

    Dan Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 15, 1999
    They most definitely do not. I believe I'm an intelligent human being capable of determining what's right and what's wrong, and what's real and what's fictional. I also pride myself on the fact that I at least believe that I have decent knowledge of worldwide conflict and suffering both past and present. What I do in games is usually with full the knowledge that in the real world, stuff like this may be happening or has happened at some point in time.

    The WW2 FPS genre is probably my favorite in all of gaming. I realize the atrocities that occurred in that war, but it doesn't, in my mind, make me a bad person to kill people in a fictional game. Hell, I generally play as the Nazis in all WW2 games. I think this is all right, as I understand the difference between seeing things on a computer monitor and seeing things on a battlefield with real people being killed and maimed.

    The same can be said with Counter-Strike. After 9/11, I didn't stop playing just because some terrorists attacked my country. I think that only the ignorant would do so, as they're the ones that don't realize that terrorist attacks happen frequently across the globe, and they feel it's somehow different because the US was attacked. That just doesn't make sense to me.

    People that I don't appreciate are the ones who can't differentiate between a game and reality. The people who write into PC Gamer (or even in one case, the editor) and talk about how if the people in the real-life battle had "only" been able to take out that Panzer like they could in the game. The people that don't realize that you can't take out a Panzer with a few grenades. A WW2 vet actually wrote in and put the guy in his place in the next issue.
     
  10. Sithman

    Sithman Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 6, 1999
    "I believe I'm an intelligent human being..."


    Well, that's debatable.






















    :p Just kidding, Dan; just kidding. :D
     
  11. jp-30

    jp-30 Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2000
    Dan. Just curious. Do you have any surviving grandparents who fought in WW2? Have they ever seen the WW2 games you play.

    I'm curious as to what their reaction would be.

    I recall showing my granparents a WW2 fighter sim (Aces of the Pacific on my ol' 386) - both my grandfathers were in the RNZAF, one a pilot, one a navigator. They seemed genuinely intrigued by the game. But I wonder what they'd have thought if one of the missions was based on one they flew in...

    And as many of you have said, you've no problem separating reality from fiction. Fair enough, me neither. But do you feel no reaction to fiction? Do movies or books never make you emotional? If you are an impassive, unemotive human being who does not have emotive reactions to fiction (whether it be while watching E.T. or playing a game) might I suggest you're missing out... ;)


     
  12. Dan

    Dan Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 15, 1999
    No, I have no grandparents left. I never even met either my grandfathers. I, too, would be interested in their opinions of it, since I believe they both fought.

    I think I can be emotional when it comes to fiction, although much less so than the average person. (I did indeed cry when I read the RotJ novelization ending when I was fourteen - I'm such a loser ;) - but that's been the only time thus far in my life.) I felt genuine sorrow and horror when I watched Saving Private Ryan, but that doesn't mean I was fighting back tears and shaking with terror when I played Omaha Beach in Medal of Honor. Movies definitely have more of an impact on me. I guess I've just become dissensitized to violence in games to some degree.
     
  13. Nai

    Nai Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2002
    I react when there's something to react to. In a lot of games, you're just playing rather generic heroes or anti-heroes and there's not much room for emotional involvement. The goal (beating the final boss or just creating mayhem, for example) is the main focus. Some games, usually RPGs, have a lot more focus on story and characters. Aeris's death in FFVII was the first time a video game really got to me.

    GTA3 is an unusual case. There's a fairly cohesive plot and interesting characters, but they're mostly criminals and low-lifes, so it's hard for me to really form a connection with them. I certainly didn't think twice about blowing Don Salvatore to pieces (except when I had to play the mission over and over again). There's also the fact that your voiceless, nameless character didn't really react to anything, he was just given tasks and occasionally betrayed. GTA:VC is certainly adding a new dimension to its protagonist, so I'll have to see how that works out.
     
  14. Darth_Simpson

    Darth_Simpson Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 7, 2000
    I guess I've just become dissensitized to violence in games to some degree.

    Same here. I feel totally unaffected when it comes to connecting real life incidents to my games. I barely feel any emotion while playing games anymore, except for pride when completing a particulary difficult task, or the occasional 'Oh yeah, this rocks'.

    I never even connected the sniper incidents in Washington to sniping in Battlefield 1942, or any other game for that matter.
     
  15. Terra

    Terra Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2000
    I don't feel I'm affected in the slightest, to be honest, but I admit to feeling slightly tactless when I was sniping in UT a couple days ago...didn't stop me, just reminded me. Thing is I knew it made no difference...nobody was being hurt by the game, so why stop? Why care?
     
  16. Rebecca191

    Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 1999
    Hmm.

    I think what TheWampas1138 was getting at was not that he feels killing in video games in ways similiar to real life tragedies is wrong, just that it isn't much fun because it reminds him of those tragedies.

    For example, I was sniping today in JO MP. And all of a sudden I remembered about the sniper murders, and it didn't feel WRONG to snipe in a game, just not really fun anymore.
     
  17. Terra

    Terra Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2000
    In my opinion stopping doing things because they remind you of sad events lets those who cause such events win.
     
  18. Rebecca191

    Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 1999
    If it's not fun anymore, why should I do it? Isn't fun the whole point of a game? If it's not fun, doesn't it defeat the purpose?
     
  19. Rabid_Balding_Ewok

    Rabid_Balding_Ewok Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2000
    Not affected in the slightest. Actually it always annoys me when people get reactionary over real events and entertainment. For example the change in MGS2 after the terrorist attacks, the Spider Man trailer getting pulled because it had the twin towers in it, those DJ's that wouldn't play Antrhax over the radio because of the Antrhax scare or the removal of world monuments from certain flight sims. I can differentiate reality from fantasy and have no problems with entertainment that has a link intentional/unintentional to real life.

    -----signature-----
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    If there was an enemies list, you'd be on mine."
    [face_devil] [face_laugh] [face_devil] [face_laugh] [face_devil] [face_laugh]

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  20. TheWampas1138

    TheWampas1138 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 2, 2002
    I am still well aware of the line between reality and fiction. It's just that some fictional images remind me of real life ones. I think it's hard for them not to. I still paid off GTA4 and will thoroughly enjoy it, and I've never minded shooting the bad guys in any way possible, but part of the fun for me in GTA is shooting innocent people and causing a huge mess. It's not the game that bugs me, it's the visual reminder. I like to lose myself in games, and some things pop me back to reality. Certainly I don't think that video game violence causes me to be violent. After all, I've played hockey games, never decided to be a hockey player. I've farmed, never decided to buy so much as a cactus. I've played racing games but never gotten in a high speed chase with the police. It's just some games, or actions in games, remind me of other events.

    I have gotten over buildings falling thanks to Robotech so that by the time I got to Godzilla, I was smashing them for fun.

    Things from movies that I later play in games don't really affect me. I thought about the storming of the beach from Saving Private Ryan when I played MOH, but only as a reference point. And I don't think I would mind playing as a Nazi, so long as I wasn't in one of the camps or doing any of the really nasty things that they did. There are just some things I can't do.



     
  21. Terra

    Terra Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2000
    That's fair enough Rebecca - I suppose I'm just not affected like that.
     
  22. Dire_Wolf

    Dire_Wolf Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2002
    It doesnt affect me at all.

    Personally I try not to let anything get to me that is not directy affecting me(or my family, or friend) Personally I know things that happen are bad, But I just dont let them get to me. Hell one of the first things my dad taught me was that "**** happens to nice people, and there's nothing you can do." It's a rule of thumb of mine not to go getting all emotional about anything that doesn't effect me in someway directly, weather is be getting offened of someone else, or feeling really bad for someone else. The way I see it. "there will be enough sadness in your own life, that you dont need to go and find more."

    And so far I can say that no events in the news have taken away form my enjoyment of a game.
     
  23. obi-wannabe1

    obi-wannabe1 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2001
    nope.

    i seperate games and movies from reality. i will play a first person shooter and watch movies with a bunch of violence but i would never shoot anyone in real life (unless it was total self-defense). real life events are totally different (at least for me).
     
  24. jp-30

    jp-30 Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2000
    I wonder how many of you who used to enjoy smashing planes into buildings in MS Flight Simulator have stopped doing that since 11 September?

     
  25. Dire_Wolf

    Dire_Wolf Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Most of the jet games I play Its more fun to use your guns. But In the Flight sims I still do when I get board.
     
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