SWC Do fan theories ruin movies?

Well to be fair Boba Fett probably did lose the will to live being digested by the Sarlacc...

 

No, but I think there were a lot of theories that people did get attached to (Reylo, Snoke, Rey's parents etc) which a lot of fans got very attached to, so much so that they were massively disappointed when all their theories turned out to have been subverted.

 

That's easy. One person's garbage is another person's treasure. If people can't accept that, then life is probably really hard for them.

Not that I don't have moments of "how can you not get that ...." but that's more like the terminator scene where 4 to 6 options/responses come up, that's one of them and hopefully I dismiss it for what I think, not how I feel.

Fan theories don't ruin movies. If you are into that franchise, they can be fun and a nice stretching of your creative process.

Fan theories can ruin work production however.

I like Rey Nobody. Not because I think it is creative or that it means the force can now be with anybody (that already existed). I just realized the Rey "Familiar Family Line" was going to be a facepalm and Rey Nobody was the only way out.

Snoke on the other hand was around during the Empire, turned Ben and somehow raised the First Order. Snoke Who? is not great. I'm not sure he even did much for Kylo's character development.

 

Mostly agree with that, but again will point out that we knew nothing about Palps at the end of ROTJ; not even his name.

 

But it really is apples and oranges. People knew what the Empire was. It was explained just enough to give an anchored context, but not overbearingly so to lose the real theme of the OT. People see tyranny all the time (usually on the history page). Empires usually don't arrive from an outside conquering force, but from within. So the ruler/emperor more or less inherits the strength of the government they usurped.

But now we have an Empire in Ashes rise from ... still is really foggy. It's like ISIS. Rose from the ashes of Al-Qaeda allowed by a vacuum. There doesn't appear to have been any New Republic vacuum left. And ISIS was only as strong as the international community allowed. They were a joke in the end once they were answered.

So Snoke is a huge key to just exactly what this F.O. is. "An Empire" didn't necessarily require a Sith Master or somebody with deep pockets.

They can still flesh out the Snoke story by contrasting Supreme Leader Snoke with what we have now. "You're no Snoke." F.O. crumbles.

 

We really knew nothing. There was a brief mention of the Clone Wars. We know that the dark times came with the Empire. We are told Vader "turned to evil." We don't know what became before the Empire, or why or how it came. We get a brief mention of the Emperor, but in ANH, there is no suggestion at all he is a Force user. We get our first glimpse of him Empire, and then McDiarmid's iconic scenes in ROTJ. We get some exposition from Obi-Wan to explain his "certain point of view," and a very brief description of Anakin being turned by the Emperor. But nothing else really.

The situation is the same with the FO and Snoke. We know the First Order rise from the ashes of the Empire. I'd say it's more similar to the rise of the Third Reich from the ashes of the German Empire. I mean, the names are even the same pattern, right? And while I am definitely curious about Snoke, we know about as much about him as we did about Palps. That is, not bloody much!

Similar to the 30's, where the world was weary of war, and willing to ignore some obvious warning signs, the Republic is weary of war, and unwilling to see the necessity of comfronting a new evil.

But I do hope we learn more about Snoke by some means.

 

I don't think it Ruins movies, but it can set certain expectations....for example someone could come up with a really good clever exciting theory, then when the actual story plays out and it's not as interestesting....you might be disappointed.

Personally I like what they did with Snoke....I don't think many people saw it coming....good Twist....Kylo is a far more interesting Antagonist

 

ANH - We knew there was a Senate. We knew there was a Republic. We knew the Republic had a long history (unlike the New Republic). We knew there was some kind of Clone War and Jedi Purge.

That's quite a bit more than "rose from the Ashes"

We also know the Dark Times didn't happen yesterday. They had obviously happened long enough that the Empire is firmly established and has been for quite some time. There was no reason to question the Empire's strength and means. It was galaxy wide. The First Order's rule is a few hours hold, the people running it are incompetent yet somehow successful, they aren't the government in power hours earlier, yet they are equipped as if they are. These require serious answers. Or we just have to suspend disbelief.

Only because of the names. The Empire and their STORMTROOPERS were closer to Nazi Germany than these guys. As some have mentioned, they are more like Neo-Nazis. How successful has that movement been? It's a joke. Nobody truly fears that Neo-Nazis will suddenly sweep in with military tech beyond any current government and take over in a blaze of destruction over the course of a few hours.

And Nazi Germany didn't really do that either. They had the Blitzkrieg, but they also had Pacts, promises of "that's the last one, we swear." They also had a few scapegoats, mainly in dealing with reparations on top of a global recession. These conditions made it possible. The First Order had none of that. The brass of Nazi Germany were the soldiers of the Kaiser. The First Order leadership wasn't even born during the Empire. Except Snoke. Hmm, we should know more about that.

But I do hope we learn more about Snoke by some means.[/QUOTE]

Thought: Snoke's financial background can become apparent when it is no longer available to Kylo. The Canto Blight arms dealers back safe bets. It won't take them long to figure out Kylo is a junk stock.

EDIT: Also, great discussion. We are actually talking about the movie and not each other.

 

I'll add more later, but here's a few things.... the German Empire had an Emperor... the Kaiser. The Galactic Empire had an Emperor. The Third Reich had a Fuhrer, which translates to "leader." The First Order has a Supreme Leader. Stormtroopers first appeared in WW I. They were troops specially equipped to assault trenches. The Imperial officer's tunic was based on the Imperial German Cavalry Officer's tunic. The First Order Officer uniforms are clearly inspired by WWII German uniforms, with the cuff titles.

Although, I geek about this kind of stuff, the exact analogy is not really that important. We have Space Nazis either way. I am interested in discussing connections between the First Order and the Canto Bight crowd, the Bloodline novel touched on it a bit, and I am interested in that.

 

I'm not denying JJ based the majority of the First Order on Nazi Germany. I'm debating how well he did it beyond labels.

I do recall the privileged FO supporters (always in theory they'd say). I don't recall if Canto Bight itself was used, possibly because I had less reason to remember it at that time.

I didn't takeaway from TLJ that the Canto Bight crowd were the financiers. They weren't supplying the riches as opposed to accepting them, unless I missed a line or two. Perhaps I can infer that lines of credit were extended, but that would usually mean the F.O. already had collateral to extend against.

But the idea that those lines of credits might be diminished or cut off sounds interesting for Ep9. CB crew might view it as a bad long term investment. The first payments are made, but then the checks in the mail excuses start rolling in from Kylo's secretary (I bet that's the position he would have pushed Rey into. That sexist jerk.) Although, the "these aren't the invoices you're looking for" could come in handy.

 

I think that fan theories help make the outcomes of the movies a lot more interesting, in terms of discussion.

 

fan theories are sometimes better than what the actual filmmakers themselves can up with

 

On that I will happily agree!

But the question is, if you've come up with a great idea for your favourite character, or an amazing theory that then gets disproved or disappoints you, does that sour your pleasure of the viewing experience?

 

good question!

initially I would say yes, but then I would come to my senses and remember it's just a movie at the end of the day and get over it

 

Sense has nothing to do with Star Wars.

 

It was addressed in the OT and PT - Luke could bullseye wamprats with no training, and block lasers blindfolded and blow up Deathstars while Vader shot at him with 5 minutes training. Anakin could race pods at extreme speeds without training, and see what the Jedi were seeing. Rey just managed to do different things IE mind tricks without training, and was already adept at using striking weapons and beat Kylo while he was weak and injured.

 

Ruin movies? No.
Ruin their own enjoyment of the movies? Sure.

 

No, but I will admit that when TFA came around, I was annoyed by the fact Snoke wasn't clearly connected to the PT in anyway, as in possibly being Plaguies. But I outgrew that feeling quick and now I like Snoke a lot more after seeing TLJ.

TFA helped me just throw all future expectations/theories out the window and just to go along from the ride.