ST Do Kylos new powers contradict the OT and PT?

Kylo Ren has a lot of new powers that we have not seen a Sith or a Jedi use in either the PT or OT.

He can probe minds, he can stop blaster bolts in the air, he can cause people to faint on command. What else?


I think a lot of his powers are cool but are their situations where they could of been used in the OT and PT?

Why didn't Darth Vader probe Leias mind to get the Rebel base location?

Why didn't Darth Vader make Luke faint before trying to put him into carbon freezing?

Why didn't Luke stop the blaster bolt from hitting his hand in RoTJ on the skiff sail barge thing?

Could Kylos powers been used in the PT or OT in different situations? Why does he have new powers that we haven not seen on screen yet.

 

Probing minds were used in TCW!
MAybe, not sure if its the same thing..

 

Vader probed Luke's mind in ROTJ btw.

 

He searched his feelings, he didn't mind read him.

 

Uh, so there's a difference? Vader's like Deanna Troi and not her mom?

 

Well, it's 30 years on from the OT, and 50 years after the PT isn't it. In ROTS Yoda says that Qui-Gon "discovered" a way to communicate from beyond didn't he, and Darth Plageuis figured out how to beat death? I took that to mean knowledge of the Force and its power is always evolving and being discovered.

 

It's invasive.

I'm sure that it would have been prohibited by the Jedi council - since just about everything humanly natural was.

 

Sort of yeah, I was under the impression that both Sith and Jedi could feel other people's feelings in both trilogies but could not read minds or see what they were thinking. They could feel feelings, unless they were being masked like Palpatine.

 

And feelings come from where exactly? Heart?

 

Simple. Perhaps Snoke taught him some things Palpatine didn't know.

 

In RoTJ Vader is simply probing Luke's thoughts as his mind wanders and he thinks about Leia. In TFA Ren seems to be able to literally pull the information he wants from his victims' minds. Whether Vader can do the same thing is uncertain. It could be that he was simply unsuccessful with Leia because she is strong with the force and able to resist his probing. This would be a retroactive addition of course but it wouldn't contradict either the events of ANH or TFA.

 

I'll be honest... none of this bothers me as much as Anakin leaping out of the speeder in AOTC...as long as we don't go there again we should be ok

 

Well, different Jedi and Sith seem to be good at different things. For example, we only ever see Palps and Dooku using Force Lightning. If Kylo is not Sith, perhaps he has different powers to draw upon... different things he learned from a different path.

 

He found out Luke had a twin sister by probing his mind. Those aren't feelings he was in his mind, he pulled information. And it sounded like Leia resisted his mind probe just as rey did to Kylo ren.
The Jedi council new Anakin was thinking of his mother during his interview in TPM. Those are all details. Not just feelings.

 

Hmmm good point.

 

Vader did probe Leia's mind, she resisted it, just like Rey did to Kylo ren.

Good question. Maybe he was unaware of the possibility?

Luke wasn't the greatest with his powers nor was he very strong in the mind, plus it was a pretty good battle going on.

Vader didn't need to stop blaster bolts, he absorbed them. Kylo isn't on his level yet.


Sorry for multiple replys. Thought it was two different people.

 

True it doesn't seem that Vader can pull out what he wants, they have to be thinking about it at the moment for him to read it.

 

Kylos new powers contradict the claims there's nothing new in TFA certainly. Thing is, we don't get to decide who can do what, where would be the surprise in that. We like it or we don't, but can't really say it's wrong, we're not telling the story. Really though, I'd hate to think that the force had been completely mapped out by previous Sith and Jedi. I prefer the idea of people having talents in different aspects of the Force, at wildly varying levels and that there is still much to discover.

 

I don't think his powers necessarily contradict the previous movies just because they're new. I view his "freezing" of the blaster bolt and Poe and Rey to be an extension of manipulating people and objects which we've certainly seen before (although not quite in that manner) I always assumed that there is a lot going on with force users that we don't see....especially in lightsaber duels. Like your opponent constantly trying to rip the lightsaber out of your hands or turn it off completely and you understanding what he's attempting and resisting it. It's kinda like mental martial arts. It's something that wouldn't necessarily manifest itself on screen.

I really love the new applications of the force that he uses...that blaster bolt (and Poe's reaction) was awesome!
I can't even imagine what Luke is capable of at this point.

 

I didn't start the thread to dog on TFA. I actually like the new powers. I just wonder what are the repercussions of it. Where did he get them? Does Snoke know new stuff? Why didn't we see some things in the old movies?

 

There's only one new power in the TFA I saw. That would be putting someone to sleep. It's an evolution, new people think of new things. Basically, you learn and practice what you really want to.

 

I don't have a problem with it. From the whole Qui-Gon ghost odyssey it is crystal clear that research or new insight can open up new Force powers even after a thousand years of having that Jedi temple and library active. So even if Kylo genuinely invented the "bolt stop" and he is the only man ever to do it, that would be completely legit according to OT/PT rules because of what Qui-Gon did.

Older RPGs etc. were more invested in specific, granular powers, but I don't think that's what we're seeing. Different Jedi have different tools, and those tools overlap. At one point in the Clone Wars, Anakin and a couple other Jedi can't mind-trick information out of Cad Bane, so they all "gang up" and do a mental struggle similar to what Kylo does. It works, but because he decides to talk, not because they "mind-meld" like Kylo does. It kind of sits halfway between the two powers. Look at the Jedi defending themselves against Force lightning. Obi-Wan can block it with his saber; Maul reflects it back; Yoda traps/stores the energy and releases it in a different form. I don't see that as being any different from the Jedi having the verbal mind trick and Kylo having his meld. There's not just one way to do each thing. You can deflect a bolt with a saber, do the "palm block" that Vader did against Han, or do the freeze/TK stuff that Kylo does. Over the Death Star, you can read it as Luke having the Force making him harder for Vader to hit, so that's even a fourth way.

It's OK that there isn't just one canonical way to do each thing. There isn't just one blaster bolt defense. There isn't just one mind power. There are many.

 

Love your signature. Imagine someone like Bruce in the Star Wars universe - Force Wing Chun!! He'd be unstoppable. I'd love to see a Martial Arts master allied to the force, and for it to be shown as such. Ray Park doesn't really count.

 

Well, if you can move an object with the Force, then you can certainly hold it still.

AOTC, ROTS, and ANH (according to the Annotated Screenplays) show that it's difficult to use Force powers

Because the writers didn't think of it then.

 

No, not really. All of Kylo's powers are basically just flashier, supped-up versions of one's that we've already seen.

-Freezing blaster bolts is a flashier/supped-up version of manipulating/moving objects that we've seen before, or Vader blocking Han's blaster bolts with his hand (TESB).
-We've seen before in the films that TF can be used to influence people's minds, and they've actually used the mind-probe thing in TCW TV show. So that has precedent.
-Force paralysis is basically a supped-up version of stuff like Force push/pull.
-Knocking people unconscious with it, see #2.

And the franchise has progressively been expanding what characters can do with TF for decades anyway, so this is nothing new. For example, did anyone back in 1983 expect that Sheev could shoot Force lightning out of his hands when they went in to see ROTJ for this first time, doubt it. Plus, 30+ years have passed since the OT and 50+ since the PT, and they're making a big deal about this "awakening" thing. So like anything, new stuff can be discovered with enough time/effort.

My theory is that either Kylo discovered them on his own. Or, more likely, Snoke taught him how to do them.