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Speculation Do not assume anything...

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Mystery Roach, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Lawgiver & Casual Flyer star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Nov 20, 2012
    Though I'm not convinced Lucas intended it that way.
  2. Poor Greedo

    Poor Greedo Jedi Knight star 2

    Nov 6, 2012
    sequel[ see-kwuh l ]


    1. a literary work, movie, etc., that is complete in itself but continues the narrative of a preceding work.

    2. an event or circumstance following something; subsequent course of affairs.

    3. a result, consequence, or inference

    They called it a sequel, I'll assume a continuation of the story in question.
  3. Count Yubnub

    Count Yubnub Jedi Master star 4

    Oct 1, 2012
    Yes. It's visually reinforced by them being stuck in an "ivory tower," detached, aloof and elevated above everything.
  4. Rogue_1138

    Rogue_1138 Jedi Padawan

    Oct 31, 2012
    It will take good writing, but I definitely think that this is a real possibility. A film featuring Luke and a younger generation could certainly explore both journeys in tandem.

    This comment probably fits better in the thread about different generations among Star Wars fans, but a dual generation storyline like that would not only mirror Lucas' personal development, but also those of the fans. On the one hand, the story of Luke (and possibly the others) aging with grace would appeal to those of us who grew up with the originals, while on the other hand a hero's journey for their children would help ensure that kids love the stories for the same reasons that we did.

    If Toy Story 3 is an indication, Michael Arndt may be a good person to write a two layered story of that nature. I was in college when that movie came out, and I knew many people who said they were in tears at the end as Andy moved on and went to college. That's pretty impressive respect for the original fans of the series (the people who were kids when it came out).

    I'm hopeful.
  5. Artoo-Dion

    Artoo-Dion Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 9, 2009
    I've been saying this for 13 years. And I really do think it's intentional.
    Count Yubnub likes this.
  6. stellarmagic01

    stellarmagic01 Jedi Master star 4

    Nov 1, 2012
    Wow, I'm shocked I missed that the first time... It's a rule of storytelling... if the characters are in a tower:

    1.) At some point the tower must fall.
    2.) Those in the tower must be 'above' those they look down upon.

    Hello decadent Old Jedi Order... time for a fiery rebirth: enter the chosen one, Anakin Skywalker.

    Wait, so many of the scenes with the Jedi Council take place at dusk... perhaps showing that it's the dusk of the Jedi Order? Dang it GL, I'm starting to respect your symbolism more... even though I think you need to work on the photography and handling your actors a bit more.
  7. Artoo-Dion

    Artoo-Dion Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 9, 2009
    Yeah, the arc of the prequels has the Jedi Temple in TPM set in broad daylight and dusk, then dusk in AOTC, before darkness as Vader storms the Temple in ROTS.
    Count Yubnub likes this.
  8. Mystery Roach

    Mystery Roach Force Ghost star 4

    Mar 10, 2004
    I don't know why this never occurred to me before, but it does make sense, especially when you consider that it's echoed by Palpatine's tower on the Death Star II.
    Count Yubnub likes this.
  9. fenton

    fenton Jedi Master star 4

    Nov 29, 2001
    No, if thats what he was going for he would have ultimately made them wrong. But by the end of RotS Yoda, Mace and the rest are proven correct. Training Anakin at the older age was a mistake. He wasn't able to let go of his mother and other attachments. Those attachments lead to the dark side etc....
  10. Artoo-Dion

    Artoo-Dion Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 9, 2009
    I interpret the arc of the six films like so:

    The prequel Jedi confused selfless love (i.e. compassion) with attachment. Anakin's problem was not in his relationship with Padme but with his need to "own" her (e.g. his jealousy regarding an imagined affair with Obi-Wan). If having a family were really the problem (which is how the Jedi Order rules functioned), Vader wouldn't have killed the Emperor.

    The rules of the Order were such that attachment was removed at the expense of compassion. Qui-Gon was really the only Jedi who was able to separate the two; the Council were completely cut-off from the realities of being human. The Jedi failed Anakin by not recognising the need for love.
    Echo-07 and Count Yubnub like this.
  11. stellarmagic01

    stellarmagic01 Jedi Master star 4

    Nov 1, 2012
    I think Dion nailed just nailed it... the Prequel Jedi are all about removing attachments in all forms (including property and personal possessions). Like many religious orders throughout history, they took a good idea and went to an extreme... and made it more harmful than good. Moreover, consider this...

    If the Old Jedi believe they are right, why are Luke and Leia sent off to Owen and Bail? Why aren't they raised as jedi initiates, trained from an absurdly young age like they supposedly like to? Is it because Yoda and Obi-Wan are looking at each other and going. "Damn did we screw up or what?" Yoda and Obi-Wan intentionally place them with either distant relations or a pair that would raise them as their own... Which sounds like a pretty severe reversal of previous policy anyway.
  12. CoolyFett

    CoolyFett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Feb 3, 2003
    I probably will never see the disney set, but ill never hate them for Disney doing whatever idea they have for it. Id love to see more pruduct based on the 6 George produced though. I'm content with those.
  13. BonhillBhoy

    BonhillBhoy Jedi Youngling

    Dec 15, 2012
    Agreed! The previous approach wasn't up to much. Jedi would probably be more mentally and emotionally stable if they lead a relatively normal life.
  14. Krueger

    Krueger Chosen One star 5

    Aug 9, 2004
    I do believe that by the end of ROTS Yoda and Obi-Wan finally except that maybe the Jedi Order wasn't perfect. You can see it in their faces. Maybe the Order did have a part to play in Anakin's downfall? I believe it’s at the end of the ROTS novelisation. I can't remember exactly what it says, but it definitely says something about Yoda finally excepting that the Order was out of touch, which was one of the things that lead to its demise.
    Echo-07 likes this.
  15. Echo-07

    Echo-07 Jedi Master star 4

    Nov 9, 2012
    Just to expound off your obs -- Buddhism's teachings are that all things are impermanent. Suffering occurs because people fail to come to grasp with this reality. In other words: the Jedi forbid attachment so that they circumvent suffering and anger and fear etc . . . Anakin's biggest fears were loss -- losing his mother then losing Padme. His selfish desire for power became the need to control that which he could not.

    In other threads I suggested that Luke might change the old Jedi dogma of raising younglings as Padawans by requiring that Jedi intiates become adults first so that they can form attachments in a natural way and then can be trained in uderstanding how to cope with loss (cheesy I know but appropos.) In this way they're not suddenly ripped from attachment without a proper understanding, such as with Anakin.

    I believe GL's inspiration for the Jedi are the Knights Templar. And I also believe that Luke will carry-on what Yoda and Obi-Wan started, by allowing Force intuits to be raised to adulthood naturally before being able to start Jedi training. This would also explain why there's such a long gap between films (in a way) as Luke had to wait for his nephew and neice to amture before starting their training. I have a feeling that Luke's own son/daughter may be pressed into action before maturity however.
    Artoo-Dion likes this.