Speculation Do not assume anything...

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Mystery Roach, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. yodasbum Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2004
    star 2
    I don't think that it is logical that they will set the ST trilogy 100 yrs or further out. The timing issue then becomes irrelevant because 35 yrs is as good as 100 yrs which is as good as a 1000yrs if you are moving on to the next generation.

    They have one shot with the old cast its not like they can return in 20 or 30 years time to film the further adventures of Luke Skywalker. Disney need to make back $4billion in profit so I will assume that they are trying to bring back the OT cast because that is the safest way to kick start the Star Wars Universe of films and make that money back.

    It is a possibility that they would set the films further out but I'd think the probability of the ST being 100 yrs in the future is very low. That may not rule out episodes 10-12, which has also been rumoured through some media leaks or lies however you want to look at it, and that time frame setting in 100yrs after ROTJ would seem more logical to me. So you could have the ST set 35yrs from ROTJ with it taking place over 10-13yrs followed by the SST (Sequel trilogy to the ST) taking place another 35 yrs later so that would be 83 yrs after ROTJ and set over 10 to 13 yrs which would place it at around 96 yrs after ROTJ.

    If they didn't use the OT cast or characters in a direct trilogy would that incite a proportion of SW fan backlash. I would say that some fans have looked forward the further adventures of Luke and co as much as they looked forward to the Battle of the Heroes and would be hugely disapponited if that was taken up.

    I would prefer a direct trilogy but at the end of the day I don’t care that much as long as these are great films.
    Last edited by yodasbum, Dec 7, 2012
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  2. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    Dude, at this point I don't know if I could find it . . but I'll give it a try.
  3. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    If they play the characters at their age now, they can only preserve the EU by incorporating it heavily into the movies, and I just don't see that happening. The whole reason for this theory is to think of a way in which they could avoid trashing the EU.
  4. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    http://screenrant.com/star-wars-episode-7-story-michael-arndt/

    First shot! Here's a snippet from the article:

    Last edited by Echo-07, Dec 7, 2012
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  5. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    Ah thanks. I find it interesting that it starts out by saying "Luke and Leia Skywalker to return in some capacity" (this could easily jibe with my Force ghost idea...) and then follows with "along with Han Solo" (who I speculated that they could find some clever way to work into a cameo if they were determined to) and possibly other important characters from Episodes IV-VI. (How many other important characters survived the OT besides the droids?) There's nothing in this article that actually disproves my theory, even if all the information is accurate.
    Last edited by Mystery_Roach, Dec 7, 2012
  6. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    The problem with this, as I stated before, is that 35 years after the OT is right where the current EU leaves off, so if the ST is set in that time frame they will still have to either slavishly stick with the characters and backstory created for the EU (which is highly restrictive and not Lucas's style at all) or override the whole lot of it, and there are many people who don't want to see either of those things happen.
  7. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    MR -- I think they will preserve as much EU as possible without destroying the story they want to tell. Face it, the article broke the rumor about Arndt which turned out to be true. Therefore we can safely procede based on this info. Disney won't bring back the BIG 3 just as ghosts or holograms. The fans won't stand for it.

    Lastly, Lando and Wedge are two important characters they'd likely bring back if possible.
  8. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    It was actually The Hollywood Reporter that broke the story about Arndt. The link you posted seemed to be cobbled together from many published stories. I can't locate the original THR article right now, but I saw it recently and I don't recall the part about the Big Three in it. But that's pretty irrelevant anyway since they never said in what capacity they might return.

    As far as important characters... Ok I'll give you Lando, but does anyone who isn't a big Star Wars fan even know who Wedge is?

    Edit: Here's the original THR article which was published the day before Lucasfilm announced Arndt's involvement. No mention of the Big Three.
    Last edited by Mystery_Roach, Dec 7, 2012
  9. Echo-07 Force Ghost

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    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
  10. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    The only thing in that article that could contradict my theory is moviehole's rumor about Lando being in the treatment, but even if that's true (and I'm not going to make a wager on that one way or the other, as I'm not at all sure they're as reputable as THR or Deadline), if they've found some clever way of including Han then it's conceivable they could include Lando as well.

    I realize that my theory flies in the face of everything we're being led to believe right now, and I will be fine with eating my crow if I'm wrong, but I'm just trying to get people to see that it isn't as outlandish as it might seem on the surface and that it would actually make a lot of sense in some ways, particularly in dealing with the EU problem. I know everyone is psyched right now about the possible return of the Big Three, but I'm just saying we might not want to get too carried away with the idea of them having large roles in the ST. There's just too much we don't know yet and there's a lot of rumors and conjecture floating around that still haven't been confirmed by a reputable source.
  11. LordMortis315 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    If you ASSUME, you'll make an ASS out of U and ME. ;)
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  12. chris hayes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2012
    star 4
    The 3 will be back because of the DOLLARS !!! Disney didn't spend $4.05 billion to set a ST 100yrs after ROTJ ! that would be movie suiside....the simple thing would be to set it around 40 yrs after ROTJ & work around the EU or ignore it & then set the next trilogy around the 80-100 year mark after ROTJ ....like someone else said this is a one shot only with the Big 3 why on earth would Disney waste this golden opportunity .
  13. Pfluegermeister Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    I myself was never of the opinion that the ST would be, or even needed to be, primarily about the Big Three; but I do understand the pattern forming when one considers the previous two trilogies properly. At least a portion of the previous trilogy's characters tend to survive and carry over into the succeeding trilogy, only to gradually turn their functions over to the primary cast of said succeeding trilogy. By that reckoning, I realistically expect some of the OT gang to appear, but not all of them, and they won't be the primary focus of the ST; the next generation of characters will be front and center, with the Old Guard supporting the newer characters until they gradually are phased out and the ST becomes the newer characters' story solely. It's how it was done with the transition from PT to OT; there's no reason we shouldn't anticipate a similar structure for the transition from OT to ST.

    Really, who from the OT can we realistically expect to make an appearance in the ST according to this model? There are three presumed "must-haves": Luke Skywalker, R2-D2 and C-3PO; all else is optional. The droids have to be there because the convention has always been that the droids were meant to be the constant in all the Episodes, the Greek chorus commenting on all the action; Luke would have to be there to mentor the ST's main character (whoever that ends up being) and eventually pass the baton to him/her. Luke would also, if we go by this model, have to be visibly older and careworn (based on Hamill's photos, I don't think that will be a problem), and his moves with a saber, for instance, ought to be less acrobatic and showy, such as was seen in the PT, and more indicative of how, like Ben in the OT, he was "getting too old for this sort of thing." That too has been a staple of Star Wars; age is acknowledged, along with the limitations that gradually come from that; it's a vital aspect of the cyclic process these films seem to embrace: young men achieve things, grow into old men, and pass on their wisdom to other young men before dying.

    So yes, we probably shouldn't have any realistic expectation to see the OT characters in significantly large roles - save for Luke, who, if he follows through on the Ben paradigm, would have a significant role at least in Episode VII. Whether that would carry on into Episodes VIII and IX or not, though, is pretty much up for grabs.
  14. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    This is not an assumption but a prediction. These are the possible scenarios that I'm envisioning for the ST and why I think there's at least a chance that my line of reasoning could make some sense to the Powers that Be... and this is assuming they end up being well made movies:

    1) They set the ST soon after the last EU book with the Big Three in small but significant roles. The movies maintain continuity with the EU, including characters and tons of back story that requires exposition. EU lovers are happy until they realize their favorite characters aren't portrayed the way they pictured them in their minds. The EU haters are angry that the movies are slavish to the EU and possibly lose interest. Older fans are happy to see the Big Three again, but find things to bitch about anyway. Kids love it. The ST makes a ton of money but the brand is hurt for a lot of fans.

    2) They set the ST soon after the last EU book with the Big Three in small but significant roles. They pick and choose what to use and what to discard from the EU. EU haters are angry at the inclusion of EU elements and possibly lose interest. EU lovers are happy until they realize that their favorite characters aren't portrayed the way they pictured them in their minds and that the continuity is all messed up now and they possibly lose interest as well. Older fans are happy to see the Big Three again, but find things to bitch about anyway. Kids love it. The ST makes a ton of money but the brand is hurt for a lot of fans.

    3) They set the ST soon after the last EU book with the Big Three in small but significant roles. The movies ignore EU continuity. EU haters are happy that the movies aren't restricted by the EU or populated with EU characters. EU lovers are angry that their universe has been rendered non-canon and possibly lose interest. Older fans are happy to see the Big Three again, but find things to bitch about anyway. Kids love it. The ST makes a ton of money but the brand is hurt for a lot of fans.

    4) They set the ST soon after the last EU book with the Big Three in large roles. The previous scenarios for how they handle the EU still apply. The adults who were so eager to see the Big Thee again decide that the actors have all gotten too old to play those characters and that they never actually wanted to see them looking the way they look now in a Star Wars movie after all (this is actually a distinct possibility in any of the scenarios). You end up with an IJ4 situation only way worse. Adult fans have lots to bitch about. Kids have no interest in watching a bunch of old people. The ST makes money but not as much in the long run and the brand is damaged, possibly beyond repair.

    5) They set the ST long after the last EU book and find clever ways to still feature the Big Three in small but significant roles. People are confused and angry about this decision until they start to see that it all actually works and fits together with the previous movies, and that the ST is now free to explore new areas in a new time. EU fans are happy that their universe remains intact and there's even a new era to expand upon. EU haters are happy that the movies aren't restricted by the EU or populated with EU characters. Older fans are happy to see the Big Three again, but find things to bitch about anyway. Kids love it. The ST makes a ton of money and in the end is more or less accepted by fans.

    I'm not making the movies of course, but if I were I would go for scenario #5.
  15. Pfluegermeister Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    And that seems to be the very reason that it probably should happen. If rescuing the EU means I have to watch a film set a century in the future from the rest of the saga just to keep it all cohesive, then the EU shouldn't be rescued. These films don't need some sort of elaborate writing acrobatics done just to make things work with the EU at the expense of the films themselves. That's like cutting and scarring up your face to match your cut and scarred left pinky finger; sure, you'll have gotten everything to match, but man, you'll look like crap from now on.
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  16. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    I should add that I agree about Luke being the only one of the Big Three who needs a reasonably large role. Leia could very well too, but either way this can easily be accomplished with Force Ghosts, which would also cut down on the aged actor problem. I don't see a need for Han to be in the movie at all, unless they really want to go out of their way to get the Big Three together again, and even then I can't see him having a large role.
  17. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    I actually think it could work very well from a story perspective as well though. The EU factor was the impetus for the creation of this theory, but it isn't the sole reason for it. To give the events of the previous movies a chance to ripple through time and have everything seemingly fixed again by the point at which the ST begins could be inspired. Everything that's happened in the previous movies would still have a direct effect on these movies, and the actions of those characters would resonate through the generations. It wouldn't take elaborate writing acrobatics, just good writing, and the result could end up being more beautiful and epic than it otherwise might have.
  18. K'Kruhk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2011
    star 3
  19. Pfluegermeister Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    I'll see you and raise you: I don't think that either Han or Leia necessarily need to be in this trilogy for it to work. Luke is a must, for the reasons I've said; but if you're assuming that Han doesn't need to be there, it's hard to see how his true love can function solo (yes, I meant to say that) in the story either.

    Everything depends on whether or not Luke actually did train Leia to do anything after Jedi, or whether, as in the EU, she became a politician instead: if she was trained, she has a reason to have a larger role, and if they choose to take the time in the script to properly build up to killing her character off, there would be a reason to justify having her as a Force ghost; if she wasn't trained, and entered politics instead, she would have far less reason to have a large role and there would be less reason to justify her inclusion. And I can make the leap and imagine Mark Hamill doing something involving action in these films; I just can't make that same leap with Carrie Fisher. I could see her making a political speech at a podium; I can't see her jumping around with a lightsaber.
  20. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    Well the whole premise of this theory is the Luke and possibly Leia would return only as Force ghosts, as the movies would be set after most of the characters in the previous films have died. So yes, in that scenario, she would have been trained as a Jedi as well. No action required for either of them.
  21. Pfluegermeister Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    Yes, but I'm sorry, I just don't accept the premise of that theory. Your premise seems to be thus: you believe the EU is important enough that the writers of the ST need to make their film fit around the EU, rather than the EU fit around their film; in fact, it's so important that the writers need to set the new films in a time period a century or so distant from the rest of the saga just to make that happen.

    Sorry, but that's just not good enough as a reason for them to do what you're suggesting. I'm not saying that it's a horrible idea, because I don't think it is - CoolyFett seems to have the monopoly on real horrible ideas these days - but I just don't think it's the most common-sense idea, or even the one that will lead to the very best story. I don't doubt that, once these three episodes to come are dealt with, the distant past and future of the saga could indeed be dealt with in one or more of the subsequent non-Episode films Disney has been talking about; in fact, since someone mentioned the Dune novels, yes, such a subject could make for a great large-scale film to wrap up the overall universe, as Hunters of Dune and Sandworms of Dune did for that universe. I just don't think the Episodes are the place for that period to be covered, and I don't think that the imperative to honor the EU is the best reason to tell that kind of story here and now.
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  22. yodasbum Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2004
    star 2
    MR as I've said before in other threads that George Lucas hasn't cared for his own continuity and has constantly retconned the Star Wars films so I predict that EU still wont followed in the ST. Many of the Lfl employees have spoken, as well as Lucas, that the Film and EU continuity are totally separate. I don't expect Lfl and Lucas who is consulting and providing the initial treatments to keep to the EU at all but at best to cherry pick the best characters and story lines to fit in with saga. I would assume there are more people who are aware and care about the films than there are fans of the SW EU and while any overriding of the EU may upset a large group of people who have paid considerable amount of money (I have spent a lot on it and I dropped out of that 10 years ago) there objection and possible boycott are/will be insignificant to the money Disney need to make from this brand in teh wider global market.

    If a hundred years of SW films are to come then keeping the EU is a huge problem for the flexibility of Disney/Lfl. It would be much easier if they only regard the PT/OT and then ST as canon to build the mega franchise around. It is possible to make all the films fit in with the EU but I'm not convinced that they will. I can't think of any film franchise that has kept to EU canon.

    So as a prediction the ST will be set 30-40 years after ROTJ and will feature or star the big 3 plus other characters from the OT and possibly the PT.
  23. Darth Shibs Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 1
    Ya, it'd be bonus but I'll live. I just love the Star Wars world and my Sith Labrador.
    Last edited by Darth Shibs, Dec 7, 2012
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  24. Krueger Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2004
    star 4
    There're two big reasons why I think Han, Leia and Luke will be in Episode 7, and not just as dead bodies.

    First reason: The original rumour about Arndt writing Episode 7 came from vulture.com. This was before anyone else (including Lucasfilm, Deadline Hollywood & The Hollywood Reporter) confirmed it. In the original Vulture rumour it also stated that Disney want to bring back the original stars. Considering mere days later Vulture’s story was confirmed by Lucasfilm I see no reason why the rest of their article is also anything but the truth. Here are the most important bits from the original Vulture article. I've posted the link so you can read all the article if you want to:

    http://www.vulture.com/2012/11/star-wars-episode-vii-may-have-found-its-writer.html

    Right, that's the first reason. The second reason is this. When The Hollywood Reporter reported on Lucasfilm's confirmation, they also dropped this little tidbit of info; a tidbit that I think has been forgotten:

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/new-star-wars-movie-michael-388424

    As we all know The Hollywood Reporter isn't a movie rumours blog. I think it’s reasonable to assume that Han, Leia and Luke will be back and I don't think it will be via hologram or ghosting.
    Last edited by Krueger, Dec 7, 2012
  25. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    D'oh! :oops: