Speculation Do not assume anything...

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Mystery Roach, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    Everybody's got a theory. They're all valid really until proven otherwise. But your whole premise for this thread is that we fans are assuming things out of thin air. And Im just showing yout hat that isn't the case. The ideas that the Big 3 will be in the St to pass the toch, thus being within a realistic time frame after ROTJ isn't being assumed by anyone. This is the information, the rumors and reports that we have to go on and they seem realistic considering other rumors like Arndt as writer, Kasdan and Kinberg all seem real and legit.

    Now, if there were no reports suggesting the Big 3 would reprise their roles then you could say people are assuming things, Not the case. Also, as I've said many times I think Disney will try to preserve as much EU as possible but they shouldn't be handcuffed. Also, I don't think it's realistic at all to think that Harrison Ford, or any of the Big 3, would bothewr being in the ST if their role was briefly as a hologram of Force Ghost.

    And lastly, George has waffled on a lot of things over the years, however he always contended that Luke's role would be as the Obi-Wan mentor to the next generation; "pass on what you have learned."
  2. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    I originally assumed the ST would take place hundreds of years after ROTJ, and the big 3 would only make a cameo or something along those lines. I do find it interesting that Hamil and Ford are somewhat interested in coming back.
    Mystery_Roach likes this.
  3. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    Some people here seem to be under the impression that staying clear of the EU time frames would mean being shackled to it when the whole point is that it would be exactly the opposite. If they just go a little bit further in time, then the EU becomes irrelevant and they can leave it intact without either universe intruding on the other. That way the EU doesn't have to be a factor at all in these films. Lucas has said that he doesn't pay attention to the EU but that he tries not to have the two universes intrude on each other and that's all I'm suggesting. Also some people seem to think that a hundred years, give or take 50, is a very long time. In galactic terms, that isn't long at all. They could potentially set up other sagas in the franchise thousands of years removed from the Skywalker Saga, but that is not at all what I'm suggesting for this trilogy.

    Ok so the Vulture story said they were bringing the Big Three back, but I find it interesting that when THR confirmed Arndt's involvement, they also confirmed that Mark and Carrie would be back, yet conveniently left out Harrison. That suggests to me that Han's return might have been conjecture in the original article and that even if they do bring him back it could be in a different or smaller capacity than the other two. The fact that Luke and Leia were mentioned together in THR without Han, if anything, only gives credence to my speculation that they would be returning as Force ghosts. Of course they would be older because they were older when they died. But say the Vulture report is right and they all come back as "Much older" versions of the characters. Perhaps they managed to live extra long lives... this certainly seems possible for Luke and Leia anyway. Maybe I shouldn't have started out with a hundred years. It could be less than that and it could be more. My only point is that it would make sense in a lot of ways to stay clear of EU time frames and EU characters, so that nobody has to worry about the EU being overwritten by the movies or the movies being bound to the EU in any way. It's really a win-win.
  4. LukeSkywalker7 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Good point. We don't know much. If the big 3 are all back I think we can assume the EU is toast. I've read some EU stuff. Some I thought was good and some bad. Even the best I don't think is movie worthy stuff though. Ideas like ysalamiri and Luke fighting a clone of himself is awful. But aspects of that trilogy of books were awesome. So much so that I'd be motivated to read it. I won't though because Episode 7 may erase it. I understand your frustration but I would imagine EU fans would start reading the NEW Expanded universe that will be born once Episode 7 hits.
    Echo-07 likes this.
  5. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    I would prefer a hundred year gap, myself. Luke and Leia might still be in it as Force Ghosts, though, regardless of what we think.
    Last edited by DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR, Dec 7, 2012
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  6. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    We didn't even see Leia as a Jedi, seeing her as a ghost would be very odd.
    Echo-07 likes this.
  7. KED12345 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2012
    star 4
    I'd be completely fine with Episode VII being 100+ years post-ROTJ, with some new threat, maybe the Sith returning, and Luke Skywalker's descendant being the main protagonist, with Luke appearing as a force ghost.
    Mystery_Roach likes this.
  8. Darth_Hydra Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 4
    Personally, I don't think the Big 3 will have big roles in the ST. This Article mentions how, according to Mark, George had already decided to do the ST before talking to Carrie, Mark or Harrison Ford. You don't go having characters return in a sequel unless you either (A)Plan to bring back the original actors or (B)Recast the roles. Of course it's possible George had two possible plans ready: one for if the needed actors were willing to return and another in which Han, Luke and Leia's fates are briefly mentioned but we never see them on screen(and the ST possibly focusing on their descendants).
    Mystery_Roach likes this.
  9. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    I was three feet away from her at this event. She didnt "Confirm" anything. We should all know Carrie's sense of humor, and if she said the exact same thing on Leno or Letterman, NOT A PERSON ON EARTH would have taken it as a confirmation.

    (I do hope she's in it though.....)
  10. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    I didn't mean to imply that she had actually confirmed it... the point of my statement was to show the opposite. I didn't see it myself so I don't have a read on it personally. If Carrie is involved, I doubt her role will be as substantial as Mark's. I am inclined to think that she's aboard though, since her's and Mark's involvement was confirmed by The Hollywood Reporter. I still think it's worth noting that they mentioned nothing about Harrison as well though.

    Another thing that hasn't really been addressed... Lucas has generally remained uninvolved with the EU, however he has been known to give them guidelines about what eras they could and couldn't explore. Is it not possible that this is true of post-ROTJ EU as well, and that he has always had a certain time frame for the ST in mind that he hasn't allowed the EU to get too close to? I'm thinking either sometime a while after Crucible but before Legacy, in the "unknown generations" of the Skywalker family, or possibly even post-Legacy, however the former seems more likely. The upcoming Legacy comic will focus on a Skywalker great-granddaughter, so perhaps the ST will focus on the generation before her's?
    Last edited by Mystery_Roach, Dec 7, 2012
  11. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    We did get enough information to infer that she would eventually become a powerful Jedi, so I don't think it's that much of a stretch. All the same, I could just as easily see one or both of them not being dead, but just really old. The only Jedi we've actually seen die a natural death in the movies is Yoda, and he was 900 at the time, so who knows how long a powerful Jedi can live. For all we know, his long life could have had more to do with his connection to the Force than his species. I mean, when Luke says, "But Master Yoda, you can't die", Yoda replies, "Strong am I with the Force, but not that strong". I never really gave it any thought before, but this could actually mean that Yoda was using the Force to keep himself alive longer. Now it's true that Obi-Wan told Luke that he was "getting too old for this sort of thing", but we also know that Obi-Wan was in no way above fibbing in order to set Luke on his path. My guess is that the reality was somewhere in between, and Yoda's species was long-lived, but he managed to live extra-long. I mean it does seem pretty convenient that he was able to wait until Luke got the training and answers he needed before dying, and that he just happened to die while Luke was there with him. Am I reading too much into this? Probably. Is it possible that Luke and Leia could live extra-long lives? I would say it's definitely a possibility. And all of the rumors about their return (including THR) have mentioned them being "very old". Just a thought...
  12. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    See, this what I'm talking about. When the news was first announced, this was a common speculation, but somewhere along the line everyone just sort of agreed that the time span between Episodes VI and VII would be pretty much real-time. Now people act like I'm crazy for even suggesting that it won't be.
  13. jedimikey Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2012
    star 2
    A hundred years is too long...that would intrude on the Legacy storyline, wouldn't it? One of the oddest things about Legacy, I found, was that Luke's force ghost appears to Cade as a younger version of himself...weird...but then again, not really...considering Anikin did it the end of RotJ...which always annoyed me, I mean, who taught Ani how to do that? I thought the only ones with that knowledge were Qui-Gon, Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Luke?

    I'm hoping the new ST takes place just after the FotJ storyline ends, so 45 plus years after RotJ, or close to it. That way, the story won't intrude on either FotJ or Legacy...there's a free space of time there, like 50 plus years, that can be used to create new stories.

    While George likes to say that he doesn't pay attention to the EU, any hardcore fanboy knows that's BS. How many EU characters have appeared in the movies? Several, including Quinlan, Aurra, and Aayla. An interesting side note on Aayla...they don't actually show her death. You see some clone troopers shooting at...something...obscured by trees... ;) Makes me wonder if they did that on purpose, perhaps because they planned on perhaps using her character again sometime. I could see her using a mind trick on the troopers to make them think they were shooting her, when in fact they were shooting at rocks and bushes!?
    Last edited by jedimikey, Dec 8, 2012
  14. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    Right. I didn't mean exactly a hundred years. As I said in an earlier post, I think it will either right in the middle between Crucible and Legacy, or a while after Legacy.
  15. jedimikey Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2012
    star 2
    Oh, ok. That makes sense, then. Gotcha.
  16. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    Of course I'm only reading the Thrawn trilogy now and I have very little actual knowledge of the EU beyond that point other than the little bit I've gleaned from wikis and TFN forums. My theory does hinge on it being a time in which neither the state of the galaxy nor the characters need be determined by anything other than Lucas's imagination, and I don't know what time frame would suit that need for flexibility the best.
  17. Brenapp Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 2
    I certainly wouldn't mind seeing movies set a couple hundred years after the OT.
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  18. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    Thanks I'm glad I'm starting to get more support on this. I started out as a hardcore "screw the EU" guy and while I still don't care for much of it, I've come to see the value in allowing the movies and the EU to coexist without either encroaching on the other.
  19. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Really? I thought they made it fairly obvious that they were shooting at her multiple times. I'll have to watch that scene again.
  20. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    I understood your point. I was more referring to the idea that it was reported as a confirmation to begin with.

    That being said, I hope that all three are in and used appropriately for a great continuation of the story.
  21. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    I just need the Disney Trilogy should play toward the younger viewer. That way those youth can love the Disney Trilogy as much we love the current films. Its very important to gear this trilogy toward a new age. The Disney Trilogy should feature so many new things we have never seen. Before in starwars
  22. Pfluegermeister Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    Ah, yes, the old "Cooly cares about gearing the saga toward the younger generation" schtick. Ah, how I've missed that old chestnut. [face_rofl]

    I mean, don't get me wrong, I love your new stuff, too; but it's nice to hear the classic jokes...
    JainaSoloYJK likes this.
  23. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I don't quite understand. What's wrong with gearing the new films towards a new generation of kids? Perhaps it's because I have a much younger brother, but I would rather the new Star Wars films be created for him (as he's not yet a pre-teen) rather than me. I'm already in my twenties -- I've had my Star Wars experience. Why shouldn't younger generations?

    Or am I missing something? Is this an in-joke between yourself and Cooly, perhaps?
  24. jedimikey Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2012
    star 2
    Yeah...they show her getting shot once or twice, and the rest is obscured. Perhaps they just didn't want all the younglings watching to see her get blown to bloody bits. ;)
    Last edited by jedimikey, Dec 8, 2012
  25. Pfluegermeister Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    Here's the problem with CoolyFett's premise: it's not that this new trilogy should not be fashioned to appeal to younger generations than, say, yours or mine; it's that his ideas in order to accomplish that goal (what he's managed to come up with so far, at any rate) are so utterly self-defeating that they qualify as jokes.

    One instance was quite sufficient to make all his ideas suspect: he proposed - with a straight face - that instead of either John Williams or some other orchestral composer continuing the tradition of using lietmotif-based classical-style music for these new films, heavy metal music needed to be used for the new score, and he specifically cited the examples of Metallica and/or AC/DC. Now, for a moment, let's set aside whether the idea in and of itself is good or not (it's not), but how do these bands, or heavy metal in general, make these films seem more up-to-date and hip to younger audiences? The demographic he's concerned with doesn't even consider that music to be current or hip; they might have done so ten or twenty years ago, but right now? Well, whatever currently popular singer you think of, whether it's Taylor Swift or Kesha or whoever you wish to name, none of them are heavy metal stars and they don't fit the needs of a Star Wars composer any more than AC/DC does. In either case, it's not change to make the films better; it's change for its own sake, and that's not a good enough reason to make that drastic kind of change.

    The other flaw in his thinking is that his very premise is flawed: he's assuming that people in this "younger generation," whatever he means by that, don't respond to Star Wars as it's been done up to now. The box office figures seem to contradict that thought right out of the gate; up to now, whatever age you were, there has been something in these films that speaks to you. And how's replacing the score with Metallica going to make that any better? The answer is obvious: it doesn't. It can't. it can only chase viewers away, not bring them in. The only conclusion I can come to is simply that he wants the music changed because he wants it changed. Again, not a good enough reason to do that.

    So if that's what he proposes as a way to make younger generations happy, I have to call his entire judgment on the matter into question. There will indeed have to be things done to appeal to the next generation of Star Wars viewers, but no one on Earth will convince me that's the way to do that. If someone wants to come up with constructive ideas, then we'll talk. But I won't countenance sheer insanity.
    Krueger likes this.