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CT Do stormtroopers get an unfair reputation for being clumsy shots?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by StartCenterEnd, Feb 8, 2018.

  1. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Well, to be fair, Obi-wan is comparing military trained soldiers to a bunch of nomads armed with crap weapons.
     
  2. Darth Voorhees

    Darth Voorhees Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 7, 2017
    Yes, They shoot and kill in the opening of EP 4, the problem I have. it seems their "armor" is pretty weak.
     
  3. StartCenterEnd

    StartCenterEnd Jedi Master star 3

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    May 2, 2006
    My original impetus behind this question was trying to reconcile this issue from an in-universe perspective so I really appreciate especially the replies that attempt it from that view. I know all about plot protection and main characters but the most quality stories have in-universe reasons and believability for why things happen the way they do and don’t simply fall back on “it’s a movie” or “the main heroes can’t die!”

    I do like how canon through the force awakens visual dictionary has stated how inconsistent academy standards and nepotism created stormtroopers who were less than stellar in the old empire days, something captain Phasma attempted to amend with her new First Order stormtroopers.
     
  4. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Knight star 3

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    Oct 30, 2015
    It's the same with why soldiers wear helmets in the real military. They are not meant to protect from direct shots but explosions, fragments etc. Stormtroopers' armor have their use, they act as spacesuits, protection from weather, explosions or whatever. They aren't meant to prevent being hit by a blaster. In the SW universe you would probably need some sort of deflector shield for that.
     
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  5. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 12, 2014
    I think the Imperial Stormtroopers must have had a reputation of being quite "precise" since Obi Wan mentioned it. Not to mention, most of the time they inspired fear, or commanded respect. In fact, they seem quite precise in their shots in the opening scene of ANH. It appears they at first fire warning shots.

    Most of the time when they are in action, they are very precise against the regular enemy/ordinary Rebel scum, or gangsters. It is when they are either up against an exceptionally skilled hero like Luke, Han, or Leia, or else when they are under orders to stun/capture and not kill, that they are shown to show restraint, or to not fire dead on target.

    I think the Imperial Academies must have had to churn out effective troopers / advanced clone stormtroopers in order to make the Imperial Army the most awesome war machine the galaxy had ever seen.
     
  6. Ambervikings91

    Ambervikings91 Jedi Knight star 3

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    Dec 1, 2012
    I don't think they get a bad rep, look how terrible they are in so many ways. They are classic villians and I love seeing them on screen but if we are talking about how effective are they in the Star Wars lore then I think they are only effective against groups who don't have a much combat experience or are unable to put up a serous fight.
     
  7. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Knight star 3

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    Oct 30, 2015
    I didn't mind them missing on the DS so much in ANH. After reading how they were ordered to miss "on purpose" it all makes a lot more sense to me. I admit I had not considered that in the first years of growing up with the OT. However I found they went too far in ROTJ. They did not have to reduce the stormtroopers (elite soldiers of the Empire!) to jokes to make the "Vietcong" point. But then again, the fault is probably with making the Ewoks too "cute" and kid-friendly. Had the species been presented differently their beating the ST would have seemed more plausible.
    Agreed. If only the makers had kept that in mind when making ROTJ. [face_shame_on_you]
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
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  8. Ambervikings91

    Ambervikings91 Jedi Knight star 3

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    Dec 1, 2012
    Totally, that is one of the cooler aspects of if the wookies were fighting in ROTJ as opposed to Ewoks. The Wookies make formidable opponent.
     
  9. Slicer87

    Slicer87 Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 18, 2013
    The problem is In-universe explanations can't always fully address real world considerations of plot protection and convenience and other real limitations.

    I do believe stormtroopers have a unfair bad rap as being useless because of this. They had the same problem in the PT where a whole squad is killed by just two Jedi or how a single jedi padawahn took out several troopers before being killed.

    As for Ewokes, in many of the scenes the Ewokes won by getting the drop on stormtroopers. When somebody gets the drop on you, it can only go downhill.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Snafu55

    Snafu55 Jedi Knight star 2

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    Oct 19, 2015
    Do you consider the Clones at the end of RoTS Stormtroopers?
    and or saying a squad of clones or stormtroopers are the match of a jedi?
     
  11. Slicer87

    Slicer87 Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 18, 2013
    George considered the clones as stormtroopers since AOTC, as the term clonetrooper is never used on screen and was not coined by Lucas, it was by the marketing department to avoid conflicts with the old EU.

    It takes a squad of clones with the element of surprise to take down a Jedi, as order 66 depended on it. Without surprise, stormtroopers are less effective. No matter how good you are, if somebody gets the drop on you, you are just screwed.
     
  12. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Knight star 3

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    Oct 30, 2015
    But the term that is used is close enough. "My clone troops turned on me". Obi-Wan says it on his way to the Tantive IV in ROTS. I don't post the video here but it's easy to find, right after the "order 66" scene. It would surprise me if Lucas didn't come up with the word. And if he didn't write that line and didn't want it used in the movie, how did it get there? I can't imagine Lucas having overlooked that even if someone else wrote it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
  13. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 6

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    Oct 4, 1998
    It's over. The ewoks have the high ground.
     
  14. Slicer87

    Slicer87 Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 18, 2013
    Clone troops is still not a proper term or classification like clonetrooper or stormtrooper. Yes, marketing did invent the term clonetrooper to use in merchandising as not to conflict with the old EU. It is similar to how in TPM, Lucas was not going to call the Republic capital Coruscant until his marketing dept pleaded with him to use it.
     
  15. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Knight star 3

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    Oct 30, 2015
    I don't get your point. How is the plural "clone troops" "not proper" when "clone trooper" used in singular (when referring to an individual soldier) is? Or did you mean "troopers" should be used instead of "troops"? Little confused here.
    I get that the term was "inspired" by marketing. But the fact that Lucas adopted it and allowed it to be used in the movie shows that he approved of it. Wasn't Coruscant used years before TPM? Is there an interview where Lucas said he didn't want it used in the movies?
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
  16. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 8, 2015
    [​IMG]

    I wonder how a stormtrooper is expected to fight against such foes. Did they even train close combat techniques with creatures like that?
     
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  17. Slicer87

    Slicer87 Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 18, 2013
    "Clonetrooper" is a title not used in the films but in all the marketing, even though during the writing and in interviews Lucas called them Stormtroopers. Hasbro also used used to interchange stormtrooper and clonetrooper. Yes you are correct that if Lucas did want to fully follow his marketing team, he would have had Obi Wan say clone troopers instead of clone troops.

    Lucas never liked the name Coruscant and wanted to use the name he came up with in the early drafts for ROTJ, but his marketers talked him out of it. He was very open to input from others.
     
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  18. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 8, 2015
    Do you have a source for that? Timothy Zahn was very happy that Lucas adopted his name for the Imperial capital and talked at a convention how Lucasfilm regularly got back to him, telling him names he could and names he couldn't use (like "Sith" for his Noghri creatures). Had Lucas not liked "Coruscant" it would have probably been on that "no-go" list and/or Zahn would have been supplied with "Had Abbadon" for the Imperial capital.
     
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