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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Do the celebrations at all the planets at the end of ROTJ SE no longer make any sense?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by CrAsHcHaOs, Nov 19, 2015.

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  1. JediKnightWax

    JediKnightWax Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    "" And what authority said "you can't be a ghost of a form you were never in" in a fictional universe?""

    If they could be anything, why don't they just make themselves look undeniably handsome with big rippling muscles, long flowing hair, and a face of a thousand angels?
     
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  2. TooMuchBBQ

    TooMuchBBQ Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2014
    It's a great scene. It does just what it needs to do. If it served as the basis for glorified fan fiction for the next several decades, then so be it. What it didn't do is bog the movie down in intricate discussions on the politics of trade treaties. It let us know that the Empire was powerful, but still vulnerable, that the Death Star was something to fear, and that Vader doesn't take criticism well.
     
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  3. sarlaccsaurs-rex

    sarlaccsaurs-rex Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2007
    So basically you just want to see thai fighters xwongs and splozions'!11!!!111!!
     
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  4. RobShanti

    RobShanti Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 6, 2009
    Ah, the ad hominem attack -- the last refuge of the desperate...and the best testament of a lack of anything worthwhile to say.
     
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  5. JediRocks74

    JediRocks74 Jedi Knight star 3

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    Oct 7, 2015

    LOL @ thai fighters
     
  6. RobShanti

    RobShanti Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Somali militia and armed civilian Somalis shot down two American UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters.

    And that's the whole point of Star Wars, right? Never underestimate the human spirit...that technological terrors are no match for the drive to overcome a perceived oppressor?

    And that drive never dies, as oppressors come and go...hence, the victory at the end of the OT is undiminished by the existence of the ST.
     
  7. Bob Octa

    Bob Octa Jedi Knight star 2

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    May 6, 2013

    LOL.
     
  8. RobShanti

    RobShanti Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 6, 2009
    And we return to our Italian proverb.
     
  9. Bob Octa

    Bob Octa Jedi Knight star 2

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    May 6, 2013
    8-}
     
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  10. CoruscantDweller

    CoruscantDweller Jedi Knight star 2

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    Feb 28, 2015

    I am going to derail the thread responding to this but I felt I should respond. What is politics to you? Yeah politics can be about treaties, law, courts but it can also be about backstabbing alliances and backroom dealing. I believe that yeah any sort of story like that wouldn't be too appropriate for a main movie but that kind of story having no presence in SW at all is not understandable. It would work great for a more mature live action show or spin off movie focusing on the Imperial Moffs conspiring against one another.

    I just don't get what the aversion to politics is with the SW community. Star Trek has done it well, Battlestar Galactica another great show had a lot to say on politics and if a democracy is a good form of government. Yeah it may not appeal to everyone but it really could form a good story.

    As a history nerd I read about politics both in the past and the present and sure while some of its boring there are some really interesting dramas that could be told if you really look for it.

    Also what is war in its bare essence disagreement about yeah thats right........POLITICS or religion or Economics but mostly politics.
     
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  11. JabbatheHumanBeing

    JabbatheHumanBeing Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jul 14, 2015
    Right. War is simply politics by other means.
     
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  12. Jason79

    Jason79 Jedi Master star 3

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    Oct 31, 2012
    Real war has and will continue to go on forever so why should star wars be any different?
     
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  13. RobShanti

    RobShanti Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 6, 2009
    Ah, the ad hominem attack. The last refuge of the desperate, and the second greatest testament of a lack of anything worthwhile to say. Repeating the same ad hominem attack, I suppose, would be the greatest testament of a lack of anything worthwhile to say.
     
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  14. Bob Octa

    Bob Octa Jedi Knight star 2

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    May 6, 2013
    [face_laugh]
     
  15. RobShanti

    RobShanti Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 6, 2009
    You seem to be caught in a loop, Bob.

    Wasn't it Einstein who defined insanity as "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"? So...sorta the pot calling the kettle black, here.
     
  16. MeganPhntmGrl

    MeganPhntmGrl Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 22, 2005
    I actually saw the Ewok TV movies before I ever got around to seeing any actual Star Wars. I was probably about four or five years old and my mom taped them for me, and I loved those little teddy bears. I was probably seven or so before I learned those were Star Wars spinoffs.
     
  17. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Enough. Play nice in here.
     
  18. Bob Octa

    Bob Octa Jedi Knight star 2

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    May 6, 2013
    Lol, fake Einstein quotes now.
     
  19. RobShanti

    RobShanti Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Not only are your serial posts not contributing to the conversation, they are designed only to harass and annoy, and now you're continuing in the face of an explicit warning by the mods.
     
  20. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Right after I quoted you and asked for this to stop? Enjoy your vacation.
     
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  21. Evetssteve10

    Evetssteve10 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2015


    It really doesn't make any sense. The other 2 ghosts take the form of their age when they passed - and then there's anakin as a 20 year old who luke would not recognize. It made a lot more sense the original way. even if anakin never looked like that it still makes more sense
     
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  22. Jedirush2112

    Jedirush2112 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2013
    I agree! Here George should have left things the way the original was shot. Maybe he planned for Anakin to show upo as a Force Ghost in the sequels but regardless the original made more sense. As for the OP's question they only show a few planets celebrating. The rest of the Galaxy was still under the rule of the Empire I'm sure. Now that said I think the resistance should be a bit more powerful then they were at the end of ROTJ after 30 years. Unless the Empire really cracked down on them.
     
  23. Evetssteve10

    Evetssteve10 Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 21, 2015

    People watch GOT because it's one of the best TV shows of all time, regardless of the nudity
     
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  24. Jedsithor

    Jedsithor Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2005

    It's a galaxy-wide celebration and uprising that ultimately leads to the end of the Empire. The way the Empire would fall was defined in A New Hope and was the reason for building a Death Star. With what we learn in the prequels, it all ties together. When Palpatine declared himself emperor, he did so with the backing of the Senate. He came to power, in part because of a sympathy vote but also because of backroom deals and and Sith manipulation. He held on to power by orchestrating a war, effectively creating a state of emergency where the Senate willingly suspended elements of the constitution because Palpatine positioned himself as the leader who could win the war. Once the war was over, he would have been expected to step down but by framing the Jedi, he created a new threat for the galaxy to fear and as the man who brought about the defeat of the Separatists, he was seen as the man to lead the galaxy out of darkness, united as an empire.

    But the apparent Jedi threat couldn't last forever. Once the Jedi disappeared from the galaxy, that fear that united the galaxy behind him began to dissipate and people slowly but surely began to see just what they had given up. The emperor orchestrated ways to make the people afraid. Once those apparent threats were dealt with, the only thing the people had left to fear was the Empire itself, something Palpatine embraced, oppressing the galaxy under military dictatorship. But not everyone was afraid, or at least not afraid enough to be intimidated and the oppression by the Empire led to resentment and ultimately, rebellion. This is where the Death Star comes in.

    Tarkin said it himself. Once the galaxy knew just how powerful the Empire really is, once it knew what the Death Star was capable of, any and all resistance would have to end. Nobody is going to fight the Empire if it means that their world or a thousand other worlds will be destroyed as a consequence. The Death Star was Palpatine's ultimate solution, a way to permanently paralyse the galaxy through fear. It's destruction by the rebels gave people hope that maybe things could change but of course, Palpatine still sat on the throne and he had a second Death Star under construction. As the opening crawl for ROTJ says, once the second Death Star was completed, without the flaw that destroyed the first one, it would most certainly spell the end of the rebellion and prevent any further uprisings.

    Fear. That's what it all came down to. That's how the Empire maintained control for two decades. The destruction of the second Death Star and with it, the Emperor, his heir (Vader) and the highest military commander (Piett), lifted the fear from the galaxy. That's what those celebrations were about. The ultimate symbols of fear in the galaxy were destroyed and the galaxy at large finally said enough is enough. The rebels were never going to win the war through military strength. The Imperial fleet dwarfed the rebel fleet massively. The rebellion against the Empire was never about defeating the Imperials in battle, it was about showing the galaxy that they didn't need to be ruled by fear. The fact that statues are being toppled on Coruscant is symbolic of what's happening right across the galaxy. People are rising up. The emperor's own plans are backfiring.

    Think about it. The leaders of the Empire are all dead. The Emperor got rid of the Senate and gave direct control to regional governors. Without Palpatine, Vader and Piett, there's no central command structure. There's no supreme military commander to take control of the fleet. There are admirals and ship captains, but they have nobody to answer to. Every populated world in the galaxy is rising up, the imperial governors are under siege. There's an inner circle on Coruscant but even that world is facing open rebellion by everyone and the inner circle has no real power without Palpatine. They're fighting amongst themselves. While the galaxy rises up in defiance of the Empire, the Empire itself is collapsing from within.

    The fighting will continue of course. Various captains and admirals and governors will try to keep fighting and may even have some success but the tide has turned against them. They've lost all momentum and the Rebel Alliance grows by trillions of people overnight. As the empire falls, a new republic rises to take its place. Many imperials negotiate with the New Republic, wanting to hold on to some kind of influence in the new regime or at the very least, try to avoid being put on trial for war crimes. Others fight to the bitter end, preferring to go out in a blaze of glory than acknowledge defeat while some retreat, living to fight another day. It's this group that I believe forms the genesis of the First Order.

    The ending of ROTJSE makes perfect sense. It shows exactly what Palpatine, Tarkin and the hardcore Imperials were afraid of. A galaxy no longer living in fear of the Empire. We know there's a New Republic established by the Alliance. The First Order aren't the Empire of old. I also don't believe that the resistance are the New Republic. I think that they the resistance is a splinter group, that perhaps the Republic signed a peace treaty with the remnants of the Empire to end the conflict and that Leia and others created their own group, outside the authority of the Republic, to fight the First Order.
     
  25. Canyon D

    Canyon D Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2015
    You say that now but if they took the porn out a third of the viewers would stop watching. Either way it's obvious we disagree and I shouldn't have brought that up in my earlier post since this is supposed to be about SW


    Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
     
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