PT Do The Jedi fall because they become attached to the Prophecy

and fear to lose it?

 

For me this is the only way the PT storyline can work. That the Jedi, by becoming attached to an ancient prophecy, lose their true 'power'.

"Master Yoda says we should be mindful of the future"
"Yes, but not at the expense of the here and now"

I mean, it's all there isn't it?

"Difficult to see, the future is......always in motion the future is"

By tying themselves to 'scriptural' dogma they cease to deal with what is happening here and now. Consistently the movies warn against acting on 'visions'...and yet here they are, doing exactly that - putting their faith in an ancient vision, trying top bring it about instead of dealing with the realities and circumstances they find themselves in.

 

totally agree (well, there are other ways it can work, but most of them either turn Sheev into a living god, or turn them into fools or *******s). especially once they decide to have anakin spy on Palpatine. It is something clearly done without a full picture, or even proper care, having Obi tell him alone, on the side. It also puts Anakin and Mace in an awful spot due to what they have been told (keeping him in the temple makes sense gtom his perspective, but the prophecy muddies everything). I also think it helped Anakin become arrogant and misinterpret and therefore resent some of the jedi teachings.

 

jedis faild just because of their very own arrogance. even yoda said in attack of clones, it become very often arrogance among the jedis.

 

Well it's pretty clear not all the Jedi are confident in the prophecy. Windu seems to be dubious of the concept while Yoda expresses concern over how the prophecy could be interpreted. I'd go as far as to say that Qui-Gon is the only Jedi who is 100% certain of the prophecy

 

I think they fall because of their own compromise. There's a great underlying theme in the prequels about how the more you compromise what you know is right, the more you fall prey to your own destruction. The jedi, the senate, Anakin and Padme all do this and it all ultimately effects them poorly.

God bless you all! God bless everyone!

 

Exactly Mace Windu and the others suggesting and then attempting to overthrow the senate was not the Jedi way this along with making Anakin a spy were huge factors in his decision to turn on them. He was angry at the Hypocrisy of the council.

 

They seemed to be ignoring Qui Gon's warning "But not at the expense of the moment." at some points at the very least. (I completely agree, palpatine was obviously the one with his finger on all the strings, but that doesn't exclude other factors like Anakin never taking his mother's lessons to heart)

 

But even when they question it, their thoughts dwell on the future, not on the pitfalls of the now.

 

The Jedi didn't fully believe in the prophecy. That's why they doubt Anakin is the Chosen One when first presented with him and why Mace keeps saying, "...if the prophecy is true" and express further doubt in ROTS. The Jedi don't even think the Sith are back in TPM, which is why they doubt the prophecy has any validity since the Jedi already wiped them out. Not until they've gotten proof following Qui-gon's death.

The Jedi's power is diminishing not because of faith in a prophecy, but because of their own arrogance in thinking that they knew everything and that they were the masters of the Force. As well as how Palpatine exploited everyone, creating shades of gray and pushing the Force out of balance.

The Jedi can dwell on the future, which isn't wrong. When it is wrong is when Qui-gon tells Obi-wan that he needs to be focusing on the pending meeting with the Federation, not worrying about something that isn't apparent. Obi-wan is sensing Sidious, while Qui-gon cannot and this is because their powers are already starting to diminish. They just don't realize it yet.

 

I think what Qui-Gon meant was not to dwell entirely on the future, lest you lose focus on what's going on in the present. That seems to be what he later taught Yoda

All his life has he looked away...
to the future, to the horizon.
Never his mind on where he was.

 

Hmmm... oddly, by following the prophecy the Jedi Order is brought to destruction, partly at the hands of their 'chosen one'. When Obi-Wan senses something elsewhere, he is right.....and yet you have it that the first is right to do, and the other is wrong?

From your first paragraph you even highlight what is wrong with their taking on the prophecy....it is on discovering that the Sith are returned that the Council changes it's mind. So, despite their knowledge of the dangers apparent in Anakin's training (the reason he was rejected) - which turn about to be correct, ie the very reason he turns (as devised by Lucas) they decide to train him anyway out of....fear - fear of the return of the Sith. So they reject the here and now and put their faith in a garbled vision..... which of course is wrong for Anakin to do later in ROTS....

 

And if not for the Chosen One, the Empire would still be around instead of the First Order. The Alliance would have been destroyed at Alderaan and Yavin 4. The people wouldn't fight anymore because it was hopeless. Yes, the Jedi died because of Anakin, but he was only partially to blame. A sad fact of life is that there are sometimes unintended consequences to actions taken.

Not at all. Neither Jedi is aware that the Federation is being manipulated into doing what they're about to do. Neither Jedi can sense anything than an extraordinary amount of fear and unease. Qui-gon wants Obi-wan to keep his head in the game and believes that he is focusing on his own unease regarding the situation. It is also important to concentrate on his surroundings, which winds up being important in a few minutes when they feel the surprise and fear from the Republic pilots before feeling and hearing their deaths. A Jedi who is not focused on the Living Force is vulnerable. Luke took his concentration off of it during the sail barge assault and was shot in the hand as a result. When Order 66 was going on, the Living Force was what alerted Yoda to the sudden deaths of many Jedi.

They don't train him out of fear. They train him because his power is great and it is better if he is in their custody, than a target for the Sith. And if he is the Chosen One, it is better that he be ready to face the Sith, than not be ready and there be no one to train him. And let us not forget, Luke also was just as dangerous because they knew of his attachment issues. That he could also turn, but Yoda and Obi-wan still train him.