Do the prequels do justice to Yoda?

I think Palpatine underestimated Mace and while he expected Anakin to interfere, he couldn't be completely positive. I think the Emperor gave it his all, but had Anakin as a back up plan.

 

Exactly, reasonable expectation of intervention. I think Palpatine had the measure of his man and was pretty confident that one way or another he would win.

Mace was outwitted (again for the umpteenth time) and didn't even know it.

 

Yep, Mace finally trusted Anakin as people criticize him for not doing and it cost him his life.

 

No, Mace rushed in as usual instead of thinking things through. Always the John Wayne approach. I should have thought his cowboy charge on Geonosis would have taught him a lesson?

 

His approach would have worked had Anakin done as Mace had told him to do.

 

Yeah, but thats the whole trick isn't it, he should have known otherwise.

Mace should have consulted Yoda, called the media and brought a whole host of Jedi and law enforcement. Cover all his bases.

 

The other Jedi would have been useless as Palptine would have easily disposed of them. The law enforcement and media could easily be swayed against the Jedi by Palpatine.

 

Even Palpatine couldn't defeat 100 Jedi.

 

You underestimate the power of the dark side. Yoda did. Even a hundred Jedi would be no match for his speed, skill and power.

 

In direct combat, you're right. However given that he was in his office I don't think he'd have let all 100 in. If he could keep them out of his office or in the doorway he could whittle down their numbers.

 

Unless one of them was named Anakin Skywalker, none of the hundred Jedi can kill him. They are not destined to do so.

 

They're not destined to destroy the Sith. Palpatine can die and have the Sith Order continue.

 

Hate that argument, its the same as saying they wouldn't kill Sidious because it isn't in the script.

 

It's also a false one since Palpatine's death would mean nothing as long as the Sith Order continued on after him in one way or another. I suppose by that time in RotS it would have destroyed the Sith though, so Palpatine may have been unable to die. However, I'm not sure that prophecies are quite so definite in Star Wars given all the talk about Luke's destiny being to take Vader's place at Palpatine's side.

 

If Sideous could defeat all the Jedi alone he would have done so instead of playing his insidious game.

He wouldn't have survived an encounter with Mace and Yoda - no matter how much the prophecy reads into it. The future is always in motion. The Sith as such may not be destroyed, not in ideology - but the master would be destroyed.

 

Nope. Palpatine is what's left of the Sith, since there isn't an Apprentice. So he has to die. And while Mace and Yoda could be a force to be reckoned with, they still cannot alter destiny.

 

We know Mace can take him, and we know that Yoda probably could take him. Together they would. Anakin wouldn't be able to stop both at the same time. I know I'm speaking hypothetically here, but still.

What you're basically saying is that Sideous could throw away all his defenses, you could drop an atomic bomb on his forehead, and unless Anakin dropped it, he would survive? BS!

 

True, but that doesn't mean they couldn't physically kill Sidious and that a Jedi who sees them kill Sidious views it as the Jedi going to far and betraying the Republic and then turns Sith or that one of the two could end up so consumed with his anger towards Palaptine that he becomes the new Sith Lord.

 

Had Yoda killed Sidious Anakin would have died as well. But, there in lies the real rub, Yoda didn't. However, of everything that happened in ROTS, Yoda surviving Order 66 and showing up at his office was definitely not in Sidious' calculations. THAT was the Jedi's best chance to kill him as Palpatine did not foresee it and really had no insurance plan.

 

Oh, I definitely think it worked out as it forced the Jedi to no longer be tied so directly to the Republic, but I just don't buy that Sidious is unable to die because of the Prophecy.

 

No, I'm saying that Palpatine would sense the coming danger and either get out of there or redirect the bomb elsewhere. Take ROTJ, if Vader didn't become good again, Luke would die. Then he would sense the pending danger of the Death Star's explosion. He would then leave the throne room and go to his shuttle, where he would take off before the Death Star blew up.

Well, he doesn't get to do that, so it shows that Yoda was not going to be the one to do it. Luke couldn't either because of his mistake in leaving Dagobah before he was ready. That left his father. Besides, I doubt a Jedi would see killing a Sith Lord as going too far, given that's what they've always done. Eu aside, the Jedi just don't turn at the drop of a hat. They need a reason to do so. They need to be greedy, power hungry and fearful of the world around them.

 

True enough, I was thinking more of Aankin, but he would have interfered like he did if he had any issue with it.

 

This is a totally silly notion because it is saying that Palpatine is unkillable and indestructable. By this logic, Palpatine can fly into a sun or a supernova and not die. He could face 100 jedi knights unarmed and they would not be able to harm him even if he just stod there. Also it makes Anakin unkillable as well, since Anakin HAS to destroy the sith, as long as there are sith living, he can not die. So the jedi could try to cut off Anakin head and even if he did nothing they would still fail. Anakin could walk through fire or deep space and not die.

If Palpatine had killed Anakin he would live forever as long as he did not have an apprentice as there would not be anyone around that could kill him and he was the last Sith and he can not die from old age either. Perhaps THAT is the key to eternal life?

Sorry, not buying it, destiny is not this aboslute, because the characters could try to kill themselves and they would not be able to. Also in the SW galaxy we have "the future is always in motion". With such an absolute destiny, free-will does not exists.

I like what they said in Babylon5, "Prophecy is a guess that comes true, when it does not it is a metaphor."

Regards
Nordom

 

I'm saying that a character shouldn't change that much in 20 years, when he already lived 880 years. I understand the concept of character development, but I don't think it was really necissary with Yoda. He was a wise peaceful pacifist in the OT and in the PT he leads an army of clones into battle. It could have worked for example if Yoda was the one to argue that the Jedi seek peaceful solutions but the other more arrogant Jedi-Masters on the council thought war was the only solution.

As it is now, the failure and destruction of the Jedi is partly Yoda's fault.

 

Yoda was a pacifist in the OT? I don't think so. He trained Luke to kill Vader and the Emperor, some pacifist

I agree with Ramred that there is no way that destiny, even in SW, is that absolute. Yoda asserts that it is difficult to see the future because it is always in motion. Therefore you can predict, but you cannot know for certain. That's why your life is guided by your destiny, but you can also deviate from that path.

Palpatine can die, as can Anakin. It would just be two prophesies that turned out to be flawed. It really isn't that great a deal. Do you think the Jedi would resurrect Palpatine had Mace killed him because it was Anakin's destiny?