Do the Sith have a POV about the prophecy?

Cheebo86 I was about to let you have it but I looked at your age and thought twice about it, listen for the thousandth time it's not confusing to us THE VIEWERS WHO KNOW ALL ABOUT THE FULFILLMENT OF THE PROPHECY IN EP.6 I'm talking about how the sith and jedi look at the prophecy, NOT US.

 

Who prophecied anyways?

 

Yes in its greatest Detail probally it will.


Because Episode III if I remember correctly claims to have a Wider Backstory of the Dark Side/Sith.


So I'm sure wi'll get an small explaination of the prophecy in EpIII Even though it may be small with all the rest of the story EpIII Has, it will most likely be the movie that explains most about the Prophecy.



EpIII carries a Burden so high on alot of things not just the Prophecy. I feel mixed about its final results.

Episode III Will Expalin the Prophecy in greater detail I'm sure.

Otherwise alot of the SWS Wouldn't make a whole lot of sense now would it.


So everyone out there who doesn't think high on EpIII, Just relax and just trust that GL will refind his movie magic, and lets just let EpIII Role in.

 

severian28 also made another valid point when he said that the thing could be cleared up in just a few sentences, and I agree. The explanation I gave about the sith thinking that the chosen one would bring their own version of balance to the force explains a lot of things. It explains why sidious didnt feel that yoda was a threat even if he was alive, it explains why vader keeps talking about the "true" nature of the force, it explains why sidious didnt try to kill vader,and if you think about it, just a few small lines in this movie could go a long way in explaining a lot of things in the entire saga.

 

"severian28, so what you're saying is that you think sidious has something like a "God complex" like he's above the force??"

Yes, exactly.

 

We will not hear the entire prophecy in Ep3. -PH

 

it is a jedi prophecy. the sith do not believe in the prophecy. and why would they? the prophecy foretells that ultimately, they will be defeated and have their order extinguished from the galaxy. this is obviously something that palpatine does not want to see come to pass. that is why he has been manipulating anakin.

he feels that if he can control the chosen one then there is no need to fear the prophecy. and when anakin turns, palpy will have thought that he has defeated the prophecy. but as a security measure, he has vader hunt down and destroy every remaining jedi. eliminating the offchance that, if the chosen one is not anakin, he will be destroyed by him. no more jedi means no more worries about the prophecy.

however, when luke surfaces, palpy will once again start to fear the prophecy. fearing that luke is indeed the chosen one, and not anakin... the one who could destroy him. that is why has instructs vader to bring luke before him. it is another attempt at controlling the prophecy. only, this time the prophecy is finally fulfilled, revealing vader to be the chosen one.

 

I always thought that Luke was the balance that Anakin brought to the force

 

Hitman raises a great point that I have wondered about. Why would Sidious keep Vader around if he knew he was the "chosen one," unless the prophecy is value neutral, that is it is not specific enough to desribe which side -- Jedi, Sith or both -- it favors and brings "balance" to.

As master maniuplator, Sidious is too calculating to toy with something that might lead to his undoing. So, he either does not know of the prophecy, or does know of the prophecy, in which case he either does not believe Anakin is the chosen one, or he misinterprets it by believing Anakin to be the chosen one and that bringing "balance" to the force means creating parity with the Jedi, which can only be done by whittling them down to two since there can only be two Sith at any time. Or, perhaps, does Sidious believe he himself is the chosen one? Is there anything in the prophecy that prohibits him from believing that? Just an idea.

Really, I can see any of these being plausible. I think the most likely, though, is that Sids does not believe Vader to be the chosen one since he does not destroy him.

 

The prophecy is that the chosen one will bring balance to the force. By the end of the story he has.

It's complicated by the chosen one falling to the dark side en route, and all that but I doubt there'll be any real explicit description of the prphecy, cos surely part of the stroy will turn on how the prophecy can be interpreted, and which interpretation Anakin chooses to believe?

In other words, the prophecy is vague and that's why there's a story to tell. If it was detailed, there would have been less drama, maybe even no drama, because the jedi would have known exactly how to train anakin.

 

The prophecy is fulfilled in Anakin Skywalker, but it is realized through his relationships with those around him whether he is Darth Vader or Anakin Skywalker. The prophecy in particular is I think where you can heavily see some biblical influence and reference Lucas has drawn from to create Star Wars. Only when Anakin, who is not "dead" the way Obi Wan would consider him "dead" but exists as Vader, understands by seeing what Palpatine is doing to Luke can he realize what Palpatine did to him, and thus fulfill the prophecy of bringing balance once again to the force. Luke, from his "Point of view" in ESB, I would bet does not see Vader's appeal to rule the galaxy as father and son as Vader, but as Anakin and the Jedi. He learns this from Obi Wan in ROTJ. This is why Obi Wan didn't tell Luke Vader was his father. Luke had to hear it from Anakin, not Vader. Obi Wan also knows that it's Lukes love for his family that could turn him, because he saw it with Anakin. That's why he tells Luke to bury his feelings deep down, knowing full well what would happen. Obi Wan never stopped loving Anakin, and his love for him dies when he thinks Anakin is "dead." Maybe even Obi Wan doesn't understand his part in all this until its completed?

Also, this would add new meaning to Palpatines words when he says, "Young fool, only now in the end do you understand." and "Now young skywalker, you will die." Vader hears this as Anakin, not Vader, and he begins to understand when he looks at what Palpatine is doing to his son. It is the realization of Anakin Skywalker through his relationships with those he loves, whether as Anakin or as Vader, that fulfills the prophecy.

Allot of this is probably rehash, but hey, why not?

 

I think we will know everything about the prohecy becaue basically in the OT the word is not even mentioned .
It needs to get addressed , its one of the biggest questions .
I for one believe Qui GOn will have the task o expalin what really the prophecy is and offcourse the jedi becoming one with the force / ghost trick .

 

Darthhonky I see that you fully understand what I'm saying, see if sidious knows about the prophecy he has to believe that the sith and their religion should be the only true force users in the galaxy, in other words, like you said, the sith probably misinterpret the prophecy. I mean they have different views on everything else, so why not the prophecy too? If they believed in the same prophecy that the jedi do then they would be expecting anakin to turn to evil before he turns back. And since the first sith came from the jedi I'm sure they know of the prophecy, so I just want to hear (from sidious) what their views on it are.

 

what i want to know is: will we ever learn the riddle of the midichlorians?

Star Wars fans have been scratching their head for years trying to figure out why Lucas would change the Force from an intangible spiritual force that all are touched by to a very specific, tangible (and vaguely facist) determiner of genetic superiority.

i mean, i know that it suddenly disappeared in AOTC, but, you know, the mystery! it remains unsolved!

surely Lucas wouldn't completely alter and eliminate the entire mystical spiritual notion of the Force for no reason... or would he?

hey! look at that podrace! zoooooom!

 

Hitman raises a great point that I have wondered about. Why would Sidious keep Vader around if he knew he was the "chosen one," unless the prophecy is value neutral, that is it is not specific enough to desribe which side -- Jedi, Sith or both -- it favors and brings "balance" to.

palpatine keeps vader around because vader is no longer a 'threat' to fulfill the prophecy. vader has already embraced the dark side, he cannot be the chosen one, or so palpatine must think. the sith believe the the jedi are wrong. everything about the jedi order is wrong. their understanding of the force, their teachings about the force, and especially their prophecies relating to the force.

the jedi believe that the force is being brought out of balance when individuals tap into it and use its power for their own gains. this explains the sith to a 'T.' according to the jedi prophecy, there will come a time when this 'balance' is thrown so outta wack, that it threatens the very universe. that is when the chosen one, a jedi whom the force has choosen, will rise from their ranks and restore the balance by doing away with whoever is disrupting this balance(the sith).

As master maniuplator, Sidious is too calculating to toy with something that might lead to his undoing. So, he either does not know of the prophecy, or does know of the prophecy, in which case he either does not believe Anakin is the chosen one, or he misinterprets it by believing Anakin to be the chosen one and that bringing "balance" to the force means creating parity with the Jedi, which can only be done by whittling them down to two since there can only be two Sith at any time. Or, perhaps, does Sidious believe he himself is the chosen one? Is there anything in the prophecy that prohibits him from believing that? Just an idea.

Really, I can see any of these being plausible. I think the most likely, though, is that Sids does not believe Vader to be the chosen one since he does not destroy him.

sidious must know about the prophecy, he is too well-informed not to know. but i dont think he necessarily believes in it. i do not know if there is a sith equivalent of this prophecy. but if there is, then chances are that it is more about turning the chosen one to the darkside... 'or showing him the true nature of the force,' as palps would probably put it... rather then the chosen one bringing balance to the force. because to the sith, there shouldnt be any need to balance the force(thats a jedi principle). anyway, once anakin has embraced the dark side, then palpatine basically has debunked the jedi prophecy because their chosen one is allied with him now. and he doesnt worry about the prophecy anymore because vader has pretty much wiped out the jedi order... that is until he learns of luke.

 

And so it went. The mystical-ness of the Force slowly began declining and finally disappeared from the galaxy for many years, with the uttering of the phrase by the future Darth Vader, known as "Yipppeeeeeee!"

 

the sith do not believe in the prophecy. and why would they? the prophecy foretells that ultimately, they will be defeated and have their order extinguished from the galaxy. this is obviously something that palpatine does not want to see come to pass.

First of all, I have to make this question: what kind of balance is to destroy one of the balance's side? That won't be a balance, my friends.

Now, answering the quote, I must remind you that the jedi order thought the sith order was actually extinct before the duel between Qui-gon and Maul in Tatooine, so, why should they believe in the prophecy at that moment if the prophecy said the sith would be destroyed? They thought they were already destroyed...

What I think is that they didn't know the actual meaning of the prophecy.

 

How about if the force being out of balance means this...

Good and evil exist and the fate of the galaxy is in question.

Whichever side wins, the other has to lose, and the fate of the galaxy is decided, and the imbalance corrected.

Perhaps, technically, Anakin DOES bring balance to the force, which is basically, nature, and nature has no concept of good or evil, nature merely evolves, until competing elements are brought to a point where one achieves dominance.

The jedi thought that by necessity, the way they used the force was the right way. They were wrong. The law of nature is the survival of the fittest, and by the time of their near extinction, they were no longer the 'fittest' in force terms...

That kind of thing.


I don't think the sith will misinterpret the prophecy, I think they have seen the wider picture, and interpret it according to their own imperatives: The true nature of the force, as with nature, is that the dominant species, dominant either through sheer power or superior knowledge, will win the day. The jedi, having become set in their ways, see no other possible interpretation of the force than their own, and as such, are unprepared for the nature of their enemy...

 

So it basically boils down to this: Sids misinterprets the prophecy by believing Vader is not the chosen one or, if he is, because he is aligned with the darkside, the real meaning of bringing "balance" to the force is the destruction of the Jedi order and the concurrent rise of the Sith. The latter seems more plausible to me because it would explain why he keeps Vader around. As the chosen one, Vader has fulfilled "his destiny" by bringing balance to the force, or by allowing the Sith to be in a position to return to prominence. Furthermore, me thinks that Sids will use this prophecy to manipulate Anakin's resentment to turn to the darskide. Think back to AOTC, "Anakin, I see you becoming the most powerful Jedi, even more powerful than master Yoda." I can hear him saying something to this effect, "Anakin, the Jedi have constantly tried to hold you back. They did not want to train you, they resent you for being the chosen one. It is your destiny to become the most powerful Jedi in the universe. Join me and we can bring balance back to the force."

 

you ever wonder if those darn midis thought the universe had gotten too big for its breeches? that the balance was a way to purge the universe of force users and politicians and all around baddies? kinda like i wish we could do to the nations educational system. so the chosen one/anakin/vader/luke thing was their manipulation?

 

what i want to know is: will we ever learn the riddle of the midichlorians?

Star Wars fans have been scratching their head for years trying to figure out why Lucas would change the Force from an intangible spiritual force that all are touched by to a very specific, tangible (and vaguely facist) determiner of genetic superiority.

i mean, i know that it suddenly disappeared in AOTC, but, you know, the mystery! it remains unsolved!

surely Lucas wouldn't completely alter and eliminate the entire mystical spiritual notion of the Force for no reason... or would he?

hey! look at that podrace! zoooooom

There is no mystery. Ever since the second draft of ANH, Lucas had the concept that the Jedi were all decended from one man, named the Skywalker. A holy man who discovered the ways of the Force and passed it on to his children. As he developed the story for the Skywalkers, he continued to make a point that the ability to use the Force was genetic. The Midichlorians in TPM are the ultimate realization of what Lucas was looking for. But it was never meant to be a big issue.

"We also get into this thing of what are midi-chlorians, how they work which advances a little bit of the story of the Force, and how does the Force work, how we come to know the Force which is part of Anakin?s training in learning to become a Jedi. And take the idea of the Force one step further. The mid-chlorians are kind of a side issue. Not in a sort of spiritual, metaphysical part of the Force, but the more practical, biological, physical part of the Force, or how we come to know the Force, which has to do really with the genetics of why some people have more in tune to the Force than others."
--George Lucas

Fans just misunderstood the nature of how one becomes a Jedi/Sith. The Force is still spirital, but it is the gentics that determines who becomes a Jedi and why Anakin is different from all the rest.


As to balance, it is destroying the Sith that brings balance. Evil no longer controls the galaxy.

 

But that is no balance, Sinister

 

It is. It's not about equal numbers, but about harmony. Think of a balanced meal. A balanced meal has all of the major four food groups and is healthy and nutritional. It doesn't have too much of one thing, over another.


Anyway, the Sith disrupt the balance to the Force by taking over the galaxy. When the Sith are destroyed by the Chosen One, balance has been restored to the Force.

"Which brings us to films 4, 5 and 6, where Anakin's offspring redeem him and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe."
--George Lucas

"As evil begins to take over, it pushes the Force out of balance. It's easier to succumb to evil than it is to be a hero and try to work things through on the good side. Evil is inherently more powerful?it doesn't have the burden of worrying about other people. What Luke sees in Darth Vader at the end of ROTJ is something that I thought was worth understanding: the idea that Darth actually was a very good person. Except he's slightly more powerful than other people and when you get into that situation, your ability to do evil is much easier to come by."
--George Lucas

I think it is obvious that [Qui-Gon] was wrong in Episode I and made a dangerous decision, but ultimately this decision may be correct. The ?phantom menace? refers to the force of the dark side of the universe. Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy, but the individual who kills the Emperor is Darth Vader?also Anakin. The tale meanders and both the prediction and Qui-Gon are correct?Anakin is the chosen one, and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrifice. Luke couldn't kill the Emperor himself, but he could make Anakin reflect on his life and kill the Emperor.

? George Lucas, Cut Magazine, 1999


"The film is ultimately about the dark side and the light side, and those sides are designed around compassion and greed. The issue of greed, of getting things and owning things and having things and not being able to let go of things, is the opposite of compassion?of not thinking of yourself all the time. These are the two sides?the good force and the bad force. They're the simplest parts of a complex cosmic construction."
?-George Lucas

"If good and evil are mixed things become blurred - there is nothing between good and evil, everything is grey. In each of us we have balance these emotions, and in the Star Wars saga the most important point is balance, balance between everything. It is dangerous to lose this. In The Phantom Menace one of the Jedi Council already knows the balance of The Force is starting to slip, and will slip further. It is obvious to this person that The Sith are going to destroy this balance. On the other hand a prediction which is referred to states someone will replace the balance in the future. At the right time a balance may again be created, but presently it is being eroded by dark forces. All of this shall be explained in Episode 2, so I can't say any more!"
-- George Lucas

It will be about how young Anakin Skywalker became evil and then was redeemed by his son. But it's also about the transformation of how his son came to find the call and then ultimately realize what it was. Because Luke works intuitively through most of the original trilogy until he gets to the very end. And it?s only in the last act?when he throws his sword down and says, ?I?m not going to fight this??that he makes a more conscious, rational decision. And he does it at the risk of his life because the Emperor is going to kill him. It?s only that way that he is able to redeem his father. It?s not as apparent in the earlier movies, but when you see the next trilogy, then you see the issue is, How do we get Darth Vader back? How do we get him back to that little boy that he was in the first movie, that good person who loved and was generous and kind? Who had a good heart.

--George Lucas

"I wanted to have this mythological footing because I was basing the

 

First of all, I have to make this question: what kind of balance is to destroy one of the balance's side? That won't be a balance, my friends.

a lot of people are not understanding the idea of 'balance,' as it relates to the force. the force is not balanced when light = dark. the force is balanced when there is no dark. the force is like an ecosystem where everything works in harmony. the sith is a change introduced into the eco system, like a plague killing off a certain population, that completely disrupts the eco system. it throws everything out of wack, resulting in repercussions that may never be fixed. but with time, nature can slowly fix the problems wrong with the eco system, unless the change is so severe that a solution must be introduced quickly into the ecosystem to save it from complete and utter destruction.

eco system - galaxy
plague - sith
nature - the force
solution - anakin

Now, answering the quote, I must remind you that the jedi order thought the sith order was actually extinct before the duel between Qui-gon and Maul in Tatooine, so, why should they believe in the prophecy at that moment if the prophecy said the sith would be destroyed? They thought they were already destroyed...

What I think is that they didn't know the actual meaning of the prophecy.

the jedi order did think the sith to be extinct. but their apparent return is a definite red flag that the time of the prophecy's fulfillment is near. its possible that this prophecy was made a milenia ago at the time of the sith's defeat by the early jedi or at least some time after that. it may not be an ancient prophecy, but rather a 'newer' one... although 1000 years would make it pretty ancient in my book.

 

You are assuming that the Force = Light Side

I think the Force is a neutral power, and its effects depend on who uses it.