Do the Sith have a POV about the prophecy?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by r8hitman, Jul 28, 2004.

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  1. Darth_Sesshu Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2005
    star 1
    Well everything is opionin based so no one is wrong, and no one is right. Thats why this is a fourm to express ideas that could lead up to being something (spoiler, EU, etc.) Whatever it may be, it comes as a suggested exploration into a galaxy far far away.
  2. YYZ-2112 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2004
    star 4
    Hmm after some reflection on this topic ..... i think for any kind of debate on how the Jedi and Sith or even the common citizen interpret the prophecy; it needs to be understood who foresaw and wrote the prophecy into doctine in the first place.

    Since the jedi are the only ones who have made mention of it and supported or encouraged its' fullfillment; it's easy to assume that it was penned by a Jedi either among the current order or as part of creation of the current order. By this reasoning, the prophecy as interpreted by the Jedi and the one who scripted it intends the balance of the force to be in favor of what the jedi themselves hold as truth.

    This ofcourse may have been slightly obscured by time. Qui-Gon's view of the force and it's place among those who use it seem to suggest that there are atleast two differing ideals; both of which promote the preservation of life and the good of all beings in the galaxy.
  3. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    It's addressed how Anakin brings balance, from the mouth of Obi-wan.

    Obi-wan: "You were the Chosen One! You were supposed to destroy the Sith, not join with them. You were to bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness."
  4. Darth_Sesshu Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2005
    star 1
  5. YYZ-2112 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2004
    star 4
    That's pretty much my take on it as well.
  6. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
  7. TheLightSide Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2005
    star 2
    tHE pROPHECY is completely fulfilled.

    Anakin gives himself to die and Sidious in RoTJ, which eliminates the Sith; and he completely fulfills what the Force is trying to do at this particular time in the galaxy.

    Youngling Jedi are not ripped away from their parents at a young age [given up by their parents and sent to Curuscant], nor are Jedi denied the ability to get married.

    Balance to the Galaxy, balance to the Jedi's lives.
  8. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    Youngling Jedi are not ripped away from their parents at a young age [given up by their parents and sent to Curuscant], nor are Jedi denied the ability to get married.

    Balance to the Galaxy, balance to the Jedi's lives.






    :confused:

    Is THAT what you think the "balance" is???
  9. TheLightSide Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2005
    star 2
    I think it is balance.

    It's a lot more balanced than a 2 year old saying, "Where am I going, daddy?"

    His dad replies, "To Coruscant, to be trained as a Jedi. The capital of the Republic."

    Son: "Am I ever going to see you again?"

    Dad: "No, the Jedi Council led by Yoda says that you can't form 'attachments'. That's what we would be to you. So you must go."

    Son: "Can I still keep my last name, Dooku?"

    Dad: "Yes, son, you can"

    So let's NOT pretend that all Jedi were growing up to be perfect un-attached individuals.
  10. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Those aren't balance to the Force. Those are the Jedi's way of coming to understand the mysteries of the Force. The balance is taking out the Sith, so that good and evil are on equal footing again.
  11. Darth_Muffins Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2004
    star 4
    What the jedi are missing, and ultimatly what Yoda and Obi learn in the 20 years between 3 and 4, is that love and comapssion are essiantial to a Jedi's life....and it is the destruction of the Jedi Order and their exile wich causes them to learn their mistakes.

    And Lucas has said many times....No Sith= Balance. It is not about a Sith ruling the galaxy or anything...the Sith themselves bring the force out of balance and it is their destruction wich brings the force into balance....and Anakin does it by destroying Sidious and sacrificing himself.

    But, in the end, the Jedi Order needed to be wiped out and an Empire created so the surviving Jedi can learn and make themselves and the new order much better than it was before. Yoda and Obi have learned from their, and the Jedi's, mistakes through the years.
  12. barnsthefatjedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2001
    star 5
    The Force considers the Sith to be...unnatural.
  13. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    The Jedi do love and have compassion, which is defined as love. Unconditional love. That has always been the same. In the novelization and the eu, Yoda goes with the idea of letting the twins be raised by families, since it seems to be the key to making things better. But in the films, there's nothing to say that they can't love. As Lucas says, they can love. They just cannot become attached.

  14. TheCRZA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    star 4
    Again, I am confused here by the amount of subjectiveness in relation to "the prophecy".
    The force considers the sith unnatural? How might that be? Jedi and Sith
    draw on the force for different motivations, why is it people are making the force into
    some sort of judgmental deity?

    There appears to be a predisposition that "balancing" the force requires
    a galaxy full of jedi and 0 sith. How is that balance?
  15. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4

    I agree.

    But it's Lucas' story, so if he says it's balanced then I guess it's balanced.:confused:

    I thought, in order to have good, you had to have evil...and to have light you had to have darkness.

    In all of my years on this earth, I guess I havent learned anything[face_monkey]








    :p
  16. Darth_Muffins Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2004
    star 4
    It is not about how many Sith or Jedi there are.....it is about the Force Itself.

    Since GL said that Sith bring the force out of Balance, my guess is that it is because the Jedi let the force flow through them, while the Sith manipulate the force to have more power.

    By maniupulating the force, they can acheive such powers as Force Lightening. This manipulation of the force is "unnatural" and is not meant to be used that way. These Unnatural powers wich come from manipulating the force causes the force to be out of Balance. The force is a power that should be used for good not for evil and greed. By using it to do evil, the sith are abusing the power.

    The Sith also cloud the the Jedi's abillities to forsee the future wich, again, is unnatural and should not be. The Sith also want to rule the galaxy...with great power comes great responsibility. With the powers that the Sith have, it is not way too hard to become the leader of the galaxy as seen in the movies.....although, Sidious is on his own basiclly so he has adapted. He has created the secret Identity, Palpatine and we all know what happens. Where as before, Sith never hid their true Identies.....they attacked and conqoured.....their grreed were their downfall. But Sidious adapted and found a new way to rise to power and rule the galaxy.

    But a force user is not allowed to rule the galaxy because of the power they have to manipulate and bring fear to people. So not only is Sidious a Sith who manipulates the force, he is now the Emporer of the Galaxy....he brings the force out of balance....big time.

    So that is the most likley reason why the Sith bring the force out of balance.....they manipulate the force to create unnatural powers and they want control over the galaxy.

    But, afcourse, this is just my opinion. All we know for sure is what GL has said....Sith bring the force out of balance and when there is no more sith, the force is in balance.
  17. neutralsideforce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 16, 2005
    star 4
  18. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    So what if someone killed Darth Sidious right after Anakin was knighted as Darth Vader.....killing him wouldnt eliminate the sith because Vader would already be a sith, so then what?[face_plain]

    Is the prophecy saying that in order to bring balance you must eliminate the sith, or is that just one step in restoring balance??

    There are still too many unanswered questions about the prophecy....does anybody have any quotes on this subject so we can clear this up?:confused:


    Says who?
  19. Darth_Muffins Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2004
    star 4
    But your forgetting something......A Master cannot survive without an Apprentace and an Apprentace cannot survive without the Master. So if Vader had killed Sidious then he would be all alone.....do'nt know exactly what would happen but since he has no master or apprentace he would somehow die....atleast, this comes from GL himself so I dont know.

    And many Jedi are killed in ROTS and I doubt the surviving Jedi would become Vaders apprentace......and Vader is definatly not very powerful Sith Lord in ROTS....atleast not powerful enough to turn a Jedi.

    Unfortunatly, I think this will be left open by Lucas to let the fans debate on this. We do'nt know berly anything about what the prophecy actually says....and I doubt Lucas will write a book called "Star Wars: The Prophicy"
  20. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    Well if a master cant survive without an apprentice then how did Sidious get along without Maul after that Naboo disaster?
  21. Darth_Muffins Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2004
    star 4
    After Maul died, Sidious then found Count Dooku who became his new apprentace.
  22. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    So why couldnt Vader have found a new apprentice?

    You make it seem like once one dies the other immediately dies.
  23. Darth_Muffins Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2004
    star 4
    Who was left for vader? Vader in ROTS is certainly not powerful enough to turn a Jedi to the Darkside. And I doubt Anakin knows anything about Sith ways that much.

    Anyways, Lucas says the Apprentace cant survive without the master and vice versa so if you ever meet him maybe he can clear things up.
  24. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4

    I dont think it would have been that hard for him to find someone young to raise as a sith lord.
    That would still be considered an apprentice.
  25. Darth_Muffins Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2004
    star 4
    True. But I do not think Anakin would be worried too much about an Apprentance. If I had to guess, if Sidious died then Vader would be thinking "Now I can rule the galaxy by myself...I am the most powerful Sith ever"

    And then there is the question about how much Vader knows about Sith ways and wether in fact he even knows that he would need an apprentace to survive.

    Anyways, this could be debated forever. Until Lucas says more about the prophecy and about why the sith bring the force out of balance, everything will be debated. Unfortunatly, I do not see Lucas clearing this up anytime soon...if not, ever.
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