CT Do you agree with Harrison Ford's opinion that Han Solo in the OT is "Dumb as a stump"?

Tbh, it may be one of the few jobs left in the Galactic Empire that were available to him.

 

There's different types of intelligence. I would say Han Solo falls into the "street smart" type. He knows the guys who can protect him, and how to protect himself when he can't. If he wants to disappear, he can. He can gt by mostly because he's a survivor. He may not be rational, but he's clever and that's what really counts in his profession. I doubt Han would have gotten to where he was if he wasn't clever.

 

What Ford was talking about was that there was a lot more to Indy than Han. Indy had a lot of characterization to him. We know that he had conflict with his father that worsened after his mother's death and lead to Indy running away when he was sixteen. We know that Indy spent time with Abner and Marion, where he learned a lot of the tricks of the trade that made him what he is as an adult. And that he ran out on Marion because he didn't want to be tied down to anyone. He had trouble with believing in religious artifacts and had to go through sometime of emotional growth when it came to the stones, the Ark and the Grail.

There's a lot of development with Indy that is seriously lacking with Han. The character only ever developed in the EU.

 

Yes, I would concur with that. Basically the character is Bob Falfa in space... wins lots of races, tries to be slick, but is generally a dunderhead:

 

Well, there is the whole "twelve parsecs" thing--and then in the same scene, he fell for Obi-Wan's "two thousand now, fifteen when we get there" without even seeming to consider that Obi-Wan might have been lying. I agree that he has a different, quick-thinking kind of intelligence, but he really is kinda dumb in other ways.

He went from an uncaring, looking-out-for-number-one criminal to the sort of guy who would fly into a suicide mission to help his friends. He did have practically no backstory, though.

(Also, first post. Hi!)

 

Oh, okay. I agree with that. I stand corrected. Lol. I haven't watched the three original Indiana Jones films since 2008. I can see why you would say that, given Indy's characterization in the third film especially. Sorry. And like Gallandro said, Han Solo is like Bob Falfa in space. Now that I think about it, I think that during high school I read Harrison Ford in an interview saying that he felt that his portrayal of Han was too similar to that one. Or maybe Lucas wrote it that way. I don't know. It would be interesting to delve into that. I really like his character development in the EU, especially in the NJO and beyond.

But we shouldn't be bashing Han in the films. He is, after all, rather amusing, and the way he interacts with Luke, Obi-Wan, Leia, CPO, Chewie, and others shows a lot of who he is. Also, welcome, Corac! Nice first post. I agree with your post that Han went from a selfish rogue to a brave, caring person. It is quite funny how he is smart in some ways and dumb in others. But Obi-Wan is an experienced old warrior and general, and Han was very self-centered and mono-focused on paying back Jabba in that first film. I like how Leia kept standing up to him in the first one. Any time Han argues with Leia, 3PO, Luke, Obi-Wan, or anyone, it's funny.

 

It was pretty obvious that Obi-Wan is desperate. It would also be a boneheaded move if Obi-Wan lied about the money because the smuggler could always throw him out the airlock.

Twelve parsecs shouldn't be blamed on Han, it's the fault of the screenplay.

 

To be fair, did anyone know what a parsec was in 1977?

 

I dare anyone to tell me what a Parsec is without googling it. Scientists and Hobby-Astronomers are probably the only persons who know the definition. Ask anyone on the street and they probably can't even tell you it is used for measuring distances.

 

Given that "A parsec is a unit of distance" signs appear in the Lego Star Wars TV series, I could see it becoming pretty well known over time.

 

He'd have been telling the truth from some godforsaken point of view. Besides, it was "fifteen when we get there"--"there" being the place where Obi-Wan's rebel allies are. Han can't jettison them after they've arrived. But I've never been that fond of OT Obi-Wan, so yeah.

From the script:

I really think the original intent of that scene was that Han was misusing a word. If you look at Obi-Wan's reaction with this in mind, you can definitely see it, but the reaction was too mild for people who didn't already know what a parsec is (most people) to catch it.

 

In the novelization, released a few months before the movie, Han says "less than twelve standard timeparts".

It was probably changed fairly late in the filming process.

 

The smuggler can point a blaster at Obi's neck once they arrive and tell him to cough up the money. Obi-Wan could lie but it's a very risky and dangerous move because the smuggler holds all of the cards.
The smuggler of course could also take the two-thousand and murder his passengers before delivering them.
Obi-Wan was acting like a desperate person would act. Like Luke said, for that money they could buy a ship.

I don't buy that this mistake was intentional, it wouldn't be the first time that Lucas is dressing up his mistakes as genius.

 

Corac has a point about Guinness' expression when he hears it. Lucas himself never really talked about the parsec error in interviews. Course, I don't think too many people have brought it up.

 

Technically, yes, but was it all that likely that Han would arrive, hold Obi-Wan at gunpoint, and demand his payment? The way I see it, when they arrived, Obi-Wan would've said "Okay, I'll go grab the money for you," and left the room, and a few moments later some of Bail Organa's men would have come in and told Han and Chewbacca to leave. What would Han be able to do, exactly? I agree that Obi-Wan was desperate, otherwise he wouldn't have been seeking out a smuggler in the first place, but his offer screams bluff.

 

The last time we saw somebody walk up to Obi-Wan with a blaster, they got their arm chopped off.

 

Han's desperate enough for money that a promise is enough for him at this point, maybe.

 

Yeah, what Iron_lord said. Also, Han is very much a seat-of-the-pants act-on-instinct character. His instincts must have told him that Obi-wan's offer was an honest one.

 

Yeah. It was either very fortuitous that Guinness chose to play that scene as if to say "Son, you're not BSing me." or else Lucas intended it all along.

Isn't that the risk of any cabbie though? If your fare jumps out and takes off (or God forbid, puts a gun to your head) there really isn't much you could do.

 

Yeah, but you don't pay a cabbie up-front. Han named an up-front price, and Obi-Wan immediately made a much higher offer to be paid on arrival, while wearing a this-idiot-is-totally-gonna-fall-for-this smile.

 

But Obi doesn't know that Han wouldn't do that. He knows zero about his carrier. And Han knows this as well. Thus he can conclude that Obi-Wan is a desperate man that would put his life into the hands of a stranger. If he bluffs about payment, well that's almost suicidal in this galaxy.

That's why Han has good reason to believe Kenobi can give him at least part of what he promised, and that's enough for Han.

Han would only fly Obi-Wan straight into the palace hangar if he trusts the old man to keep his world. He can also land on some grass field on Alderaan and demand that Obi cough up the money right now. This is a universe in which electronic money transmission exists.

Carrier holds the cards.

 

The great Parsec faux pa should have been fixed in the Special Editions...

 

I knew then and now that a parsec is a unit of measurement.

I did once read that someone theorized that Han had found a dangerous "hyperlane" so to speak that shaved the standard hyperlane distance down to 12. Sounded plausible.
It could also be that Han merely meant something else .. I doubt there's a one of us who hasn't said something stupid while thinking we said something correct - I sure know I've used the wrong word without realizing it multiple times - typed it, as well, leaving "on the record."

 

Speaking of Obi-Wan's reaction in the parsec scene: because it's not only telling but also kind of hilarious, I just figured out how to make a gif just to do this.

After watching the scene again, I think we're overanalyzing the interaction. It was just a poker kind of thing, and it really seems to me like Obi-Wan is bluffing, but that's just intuition (also colored by my general distaste for the character), so I might just be imagining things.

 

^ Distaste of which charatcer?!

Solo? You better not mean Solo