Do you believe that Padme shared some responsibility when it came to Anakin's fall?

On a subject we rarely discuss much, but I think we can bring it up is something that I have thought of often. Padme for me shared some responsibility in Anakin's turn when she should have realized that Anakin's turn to the dark side had to be related to his obsession that she was going to die and he had to find a way to keep this from happening. But she ignored the danger signs, even back when he slaughtered the Tuskens and declared he would become so powerful he would keep people from dying.

Padme had many opportunities where she could have possibly helped Anakin against this belief that she was going to die, but she basically shrugged her shoulders and just believed that their love would get them past this. But when Anakin turns to the dark side and begins killing and doing evil, Padme then tries desperately to turn him back to good.

I imagine Padme realized that though Anakin became obsessed with desire for more power, the root of his actions began with his obsession over her possibly dying, not his love for her. And of course hearing Anakin proclaim that he did all this(killing)for her, to protect her, to save her. Surely Padme hearing this must have devastated her greatly because to some degree she was responsible in what happened, because she had heard saying something was wrong with him, and that he wasn't the Jedi he should be. But she did nothing until the end when she tried to turn him back.

I also imagine that when it came down to the end, Padme must have thought of her conversation with Anakin in AOTC when they believed that their love would destroy them. But just as she ignored this warning then, she likewise did the same in ROTS.

I do believe that Padme shared some responsibility when it came to Anakin's fall, mainly because she let her love for Anakin blind her of dangerous signs that were occurring with him.

Darth Sin!

 

Yay! First responder!
Padme may have had some influence on Anakin, in being the "angel" he thought of (every day? yeeshh ) for so long. That influenced the decicison Anakin made, but being an influence is not the same as being responsible for another's actions. She would NEVER has approved of what Anakin did; he loved her but didn't trust her enough to tell her what he was going through.

In the novelization, when she first tells Anakin about the baby, he says something about not worring about it, and Padme replies that she has to, because he never does. Of course, that's going to change very soon.

 

I don't know if I would call it blame but the one thing that both Padme and Anakin share is that both of them want to continue on unchanged despite their love and the inevitable change that such a thing brings.

Padme felt the need to remain in the Senate and Anakin, a Jedi.

In fact, Padme felt that need of service even more so than Anakin denying Anakin the ability to be free of the Jedi Order and all of its ways, both good and erred.

In the end, she was willing to let it all go and leave with Anakin to the lake country of Naboo. Too little, too late. Anakin, always trying to make the right and necessary moves to make everyone happy, had already made his choice - and that choice was for power, power that he knew could exist.

Had she done so earlier? Things could have perhaps been different.

So is that blame? Not in my mind but it does exist as yet another reason for the inevitable fall of a hero.

 

Yeah Darth Sin that cant be argued and may I add she probably shouldve let Anakin tell the council everything instead of continuing to live the lie. I know when Kenobi confronted her about Anakin it was hard for her to fathom but I am like yes Padme remember back to AOTC when Anakin said what?

 

While Anakin is pretty much solely repsonsible for his own decisions, he does not exist in a bubble. Everyone has a hand in his fall, from the Jedi to Palpatine to Padme, in varying degrees of course. So yes, Padme does share some responsibility, though it would be unfair to give her too much credit. She acted as many real life people would have in a similiar situation. Neither her, nor Obi-Wan, would have ever believed it could get as bad as it did, that Anakin would even remotedly be capable of what he did in ROTS.

But yes, we can assume she absolutely does blame herself and realizes she's the catalyst for his turn. She is the one who said "it would destroy us" afterall. And this is part of the reason she dies, the guilt and sadness is too much to bear.

 

Aye.
That'll do, RebelScum. That'll do.

 

Yes. I even recall a long time back, something about Lucas supposedly saying that there were two types of mothers in the PT. The good and the bad. Shmi was the good, Padme was the bad. I'm not saying that Padme was evil or anything. Just that she went with her heart, not her head when it came to Anakin. In doing so, she would help contribute to their destruction unwillingly.

 

Yes a little bit. GL could have focused on this more in AotC. Even though she tried to explain it by the fireplace she knew that falling in love with him and getting together would destroy them both. She should have realized that he was a Jedi, she was a Senator, they could not have a relationship no matter what.

 

A girl going with her heart and not her head? Gee, how often does this happen? Nevertheless, Anakin also uses his heart and not his head. Love can lead both to greatness and to ruin.

 

She already has but after the events on Geonosis, Padme believed that her's and Anakin's lives would be destroyed no matter what they did. I won't blame Padme for Anakin's fall because all she wanted was to be in love with him and Anakin wanted to be in love with her too but both Palpatine's influence on Anakin and the Jedi's detached lifestyle has doomed the star-crossed lovers.

 

Absolutely not, she is one of the reasons why the hotheaded Anakin didn't turn at a younger age to the dark side, he could've turn to the darkside at a younger age when he was brash and arrogant. In ROTS he turned to the darkside because of his fear to loose her. So she kept him from turning at a younger age, but in ROTS, there was nothing that she could do.
I don't blame her at all.
Masteryoda5[face_alien_1]

 

Yes, but my point which PMT also pointed out, was that she knew she shouldn't have gotten involved with Anakin. She did make a conscious, rational decision not to do it. Then she turned around and went with her heart, which seemed good at first. But ultimately destroyed them. I never said it never happened in real life, but in this case, she did a 180 and it proved to be their undoing in the long run.

The only benefit was that they produced two children, which was born out of the short period when they were totally compassionate.

 

I do not believe Padme shares responsibility for Anakins fall to the dark side. It was all Anakins many faults and assigning blame to anyone else takes away from personal responsiblity. Now are others influential in Anakins choice? Yes. But he has the choice of whether to allow others to influence him, and yes that includes Palpatine.
Anakins becoming a Sith Lord is his doing alone.

 

We're not saying that Anakin is absolved. What some of us are saying is that Padme had a few opportunities to stop him, before it got bad. She didn't because she loved him and was willing to turn a blind eye.

 

Right, and I wasn't saying that you were saying Anakin was absolved. The topic of this thread is whether people think Padme shared responsibility for Anakins fall and what I am saying is that he is the only one responsible for his fall. No matter what influences others may have, you are the one that is responsible for yourself. Same with Anakin.

 

Padme was an influence on Anakin, true. But to me, it's like a young man blaming his parents when he drives drunk and totals a car. Did the parents influnce the mans' character? Yes. Are they responsible for their son getting drunk, choosing to drive, and then crashing the car? No. And many killers have pleaded for mercy because of their tragic, abusive childhoods. Of course Padme and O-W did act like normal people; Anakin is the one who went over the edge. He had the choice and he chose poorly.

And on the "bad mom" comment of Sinister a ways back. Even if GL said it, Padme wanted to be a wife, not a mommy; she reacted to Anakin as a spouse. Anakin put her in the mommy role when he tranferred his feelings about Shmi to Padme. I don't see her encouraging it; maybe making it worse when she tries to encourage and resist him at the same time(i.e. her words in the fireplace scene belied by her outfit) and makes his obsession even more unhealthy.
Padme bought into the myth of "saving the bad boy" and certainly paid enough for it.


And like the parent or spouse who wonders what they could've done differently, Padme and O-W look at their actions that light. What did they do wrong? Padme was an influence, but Anakin uses her as a "catalyst" as a pathway to the power he thinks is the answer to all his problems.

 

I do believe she shared some responsibility in his fall because she knew full well what was driving him to try and gain power to keep people from dying, especially her. She had heard his declaration when it came to his mother's death that some day he would become so powerful he would keep people from dying.

She knew something was wrong with this thinking of his, and then hearing he slaughtered a camp of Tuskens, even though they were responsible for her death. But she shrugged it off as just being human because of her feelings for him.

Then he has that dream of her dying, swears he will keep her from dying like his mother. He becomes obsessed with her dying, and she knows this is driving his actions. But to protect their love, she does nothing and look what happened.

She saw and said he had changed like Obi-Wan said, but she had heard from Anakin before that he was not the Jedi he should be, and that he wanted more. But again she did nothing until the end when she thought she could help turn him back. I believe she realized that she was partially at fault at that moment because it was because of her he had sought the power and ability to keep her from death, but it had caused him to turn to evil and kill the innocent.

Then to have him attack her and almost kill her when he was seeking to supposedly save her. I believe Padme knew that by ignoring the problem and doing nothing, she had helped advance him turning to the dark side.

Yes, Anakin is the one solely responsible for his actions, but Padme first of all should not have gotten involved with him, but even afterward when she saw the danger signs, she should have acted earlier to get help for him even though it would have threatened to end their relationship. But by doing nothing, it ended their relationship anyway.

Darth Sin!

 

I agree with both your posts. I was just musing in a tongue-in-cheek fashion about just how fallible are heroes and heroines are. And, it is great that GL, whom we read cannot write, could care less about characters and story, and loves FX and $$$ so much, creates more 3D protagonists in the PT. Love is the answer in this saga. Anakin is right, and thus wiser than the Jedi. But, whereas QG was mature and could understand what true love is, Anakin was immature and would not get any guidance on the matter from Kenobi and Yoda. I love the penultimate scene in AOTC: the marriage bt Anakin and Padme results in both the destruction and the resurrection of both Anakin, the Jedi, and the Republic.

 

Anakin was immature and would not get any guidance on the matter from Kenobi and Yoda. I love the penultimate scene in AOTC: the marriage bt Anakin and Padme results in both the destruction and the resurrection of both Anakin, the Jedi, and the Republic.



Well its not that he didnt get any guidance from YOda and Kenobi but there are two types of love selfless and selfish.What the JEdi taught was selfless think of others, somehow Anakin and in some ways Padme got it twisted and thought about Selfish love, what about my needs. If Padme had true selfless love then she wouldve allowed anakin to tell the council the truth about their marriage rather than continue on living the lie. If she were selfless then she wouldve told Kenobi where Anakin was rather than protect a man she knew was dangerous because she was concerned about Padme and their relationship which is not a bad thing but dont act stupid when someone tells you a person has murdered younglings. I know Padme was like not Anakin and I am like Padme your husband spends more time with Palps then you get a clue. Hello. She just lets him do what he wants and when its time to check him hes out of control!!

 

As much as I loathe defending Smart Women Who Make Foolish Choices, here goes nothing.

She knows that Anakin "is closer to the Chancellor than anyone", and may see this as a mentor relationship. Palps fooled everyone else, why not her too? She might not like what the Chancellor is doing, but has no idea why Palp is so attentive to Anakin, even if she resented their friendship, which we didn't get a hint of in AOTC or ROTS. It's not like Anakin too many friends than he knows what to do with and can cut out his big bud who also happens to be the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic.

Anakin also has a habit of "doing what he wants" regardless of what anyone else thinks; she also didn't know in ROTS the full extent of what he was doing and thinking - Anakin tells her he's found a way to save her, but forgets to mention that involves the Dark Side. That he isn't the Jedi he should be, but not what the "more" he wants is (ok, maybe she should've remembered his "stop people from dying bit" from the last movie. Anakin, chronologically at least, is an adult; she's not a jailer and probably wouldn't have much luck against Mr. Chosen One. Anakin wanted power - would he stop being mentored by the most powerful man in the Republic just because the little woman wants him to? Mmmmm...maybe not.

When Anakin ruminated in the Council Chamber, he was connected to his wife. But instead of going to her, being honest with her and treating her like a partner, he goes to Palp. Instead saying "I will do anything you ask" to her, he asks it of Palp. If your partner wants drugs, drinking, or in this case power to stop death over anything else in their life, that's where their heart is.

Anyone who's been in this type of relationship knows Padme's thinking. You know anything good is slipping away, you have to get out for your own good. But you can't, even when you know that eventually you will have to. Does it make sense? No, but it happens all too often. Padme was in this type of relationship, with a child on the way; so I tend to give her a bit of slack for not seeing through Palp, or wanting to believe the best of her partner - even when she knew there was nothing to hold on to.

I'll grant she is an influence, and was as dysfunctioal as Anakin in terms of their relationship. But as AVP said, "assinging blame to anyone else takes away from personal responsibility". And to make Padme only partly responsible - it's still Blame the Victim.

 

Lucas can write good plots and some good dialogue. His main folly is writing great dialogue. That is why he says that writing is not one of his strong suits.

 

I agree with the first 2 sentences. Perhaps he even considers great dialogue not to be his strong suit. But in the link below he claims that he hates writing and that his background was non-story avant-garde documentaries. So, he does have a different approach. Unfortunately, there are critics and bashers who take this to mean that he is a terrible writer or could care less about it. This is not true, he wrote 4 scripts for ANH that were very different from each other and he does get help, and believe the scripts succeed as the basis for the final audiovisual version.

http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/luc0int-1

 

I think when it comes down to it, MANY people had a hand in Anakin falling. Let's assume for the sake of this arguement that Plagueis or Sidious did not create Anakin and he was a random freak of the force type event. Nute Gunray and his Pals attacking Naboo had a hand in it, Qui-Gon had a hand in it. Watto had a hand in it. Shmi had a hand in it. Obi-Wan had a hand in it, Yoda had a hand in it. Sidious had a hand in it Padme had a hand in it, Dooku had a hand in it....tons of people had a hand in it. All of these characters made decisions (some more actively than others) that eventually led to Anakin's fall. If he was locked in solitary confinement his entire life, he never would have fallen to the dark side. Of course, in the end, Anakin was the most responsible, but Padme is right up there behind Sidious.

Carnage

 

Yes, Padme was an enabler. But Palps was the main driving force behind Anakins turn. Combine that with Anakins own personality and it was inevitable situation.