PT Do you believe the media/critics had an agenda against the prequels

I think I was rather clear maybe I didn't spell it out for you clearly enough, I don't care if a critic insults the movies they are entitled to their opinion, but I get offended when a critic starts hurling insults at fans of the movies and starts in with petty name calling. If you don't have a problem with being insulted that is cool but call me crazy I think their should be restrain and professionalism shown in journalism

 

just to jump in on the concert scenario:

having someone shouting in your ear that a band sucks is totally different than seeing an (subjective- offensive) thread or post and choosing to read it,

if you see they (which I must confess I know nothing about this said poster) and you clerarly don't like this person as is evident, choose to not read their posts,

better yet use the ignore function.

Seriously Obirob, you need to take a step back and look at what you are saying,

[Luke] let go of your hate [/Luke] and post in threads that you do like, there are plenty of them.

 

Here are some prime examples of it broken down clear as day: http://acertainpointofview.net/?p=1728

I encourage all to take a good look at that link.

Also you are painting me as someone I am not. Im NOT the one with the hate. The mob mentality of which we are pointing out to you is where the hate filled ones are.

We are telling you that we don't care if a critic insults the movies they are entitled to their opinion and yes we acknowledge your philosophy on ignoring hateboys but when it becomes a whole out of control hipster trend of smug bias obstructionism and constant, spiteful antagonism and disrespect for Lucas and the basically the whole dam thing it is a problem that cant be ignored as easily as you say or seem to want to.

This is a problem to anyone who genuinely cares about SW and SW fan pride.

When there are whole community's who would rather encourage DISINFORMATION than allow for new comers to experience the films the way George Lucas intended (in order) than it is a problem. It also gos to show what a pretentious, pathetic, comic book guy like, hipster attitude it is to take because in REALITY the majority of the western world sees the offical versions of the films in order all the time, all year long on Spike TV in High Definition.

All this elitist, hipster hateboy trend does is confuse the heck out of unknowing people who are unfortunate enough to be introduced to SW the "Special way" you force them to watch it in, or try to anyways. All it does is encourage mass disinformation as a hateboy trend against Lucasfilm to spite Lucas.

Again, basic fundamental hateboy viewpoints like this are clear as day examples of why the answer to this threads question is that YES there is a bias working against Lucas with most everything he does.

I would suggest you simply follow your own advice about ignoring post you dont like if the way we feel bothers you.

For anyone else who disagrees, I would say that I could simply use the language one of the people whos posts you liked in this thread and say "Grow a pair and get some bloody perspective."

But Im not a hateboy so I dont talk like that.

 

Obi-Rob-Kenobi-4 said: I would suggest you simply follow your own advice about ignoring post you dont like if the way we feel bothers you.

----


this would suggest I'm hostile to your point of view, which I'm not, if I was I'd have stopped reading your posts a long time ago,

you just seem really angry that people in this thread are trying to help you in taking your enthuiasm (which is a good thing, you're on a star wars site after all) and put it into threads you enjoy

bottom line:

if you're worried that Star Wars is tarnished by what you yourself call the minority , then feel happy that Star Wars is still continuing: TCW, new books, comics and even the possibility of a new live action show. Star Wars is still alive and well,

people will watch whatever they want to, regardless of what Joe bloggs in the daily reviewer or whatever says.


Edit: I don't seem to remember liking such a post if you were talking to me

 

No, you don't talk like that at all. You just yell and stamp your feet and cry whenever someone who doesn't think Star Wars is god's gift to mankind walks into the same forum as you. Yeah, none of that obsession that those "hateboys" feel, none at all. Hypocrite. You've just traded one extreme for another. In your mind, anyone who dislikes Star Wars is automatically a hater who is determined to destroy what you love, and so they are therefore all equal under your scrutiny, allowing you to label and insult them anyway you like.

You just come here and rage about how the hateboys are all wrong for acting like smug ass holes, while you yourself act like a smug jerk and try to appear superior to them, as if you are enlightened.

This whole idea that the media is out to get George Lucas and "true fans" or "purists", as you call them, is not only absurd, but it just shows how some of you have no sense of perspective and you are probably harboring a major persecution complex. You want to believe that your worldview is correct, so you focus exclusively on anecdotal proof that confirms your bias while ignoring anything that might conflict.

Hence lumping everyone who dislikes the films into the camp of haters and trolls, making mountains out of anthills. With such an overwhelming number of people "against" you, of course you would say such things with this amount of conviction. When everyone and their dog is supposedly out to get you, it's easy to play the victim.

In the end you just make yourself look like an ass while you rage at the heavens.

 

LOL look at the language they use. "rage at the heavens" hateboys are far from the "gods" you might like to think of them as. Look at some of the accusations. Your the one with the complex. Hateboys like you are the ones who feel the world is out to get them and they need to be louder than anyone in the room. So my appreciation of The Star Wars Saga is proof that I have a bad world view hu? How bout these people:

J.J. Abrams
Tom Brokaw
Stephen Colbert
Joan Breton Connelly
Linda Ellerbee
Steven Galipeau
Mary Henderson
Edward L. Hudgins
Peter Jackson
Dr. John C. Lyden
Elvis Mitchell
Dr. Camille Paglia
Nancy Pelosi
Dan Rather
Dr. Carl A. Rubino
Dr. Carl Silvio
Kevin Smith
Dr. Kevin J. Wetmore, Jr.
Joss Whedon
Leon Wieseltier
Dr. Jonathan Young

And thats just a list of people who were in one specific documentary (SW: the legacy revealed) on the history channel that gives much high praise to The Saga as a whole. Thats not even counting people like Roger Ebert, Francis Ford Coppola, Brian De Palma, Steven Spielberg, Richard Roeper, Martin Scorsese, Quentin Tarantino, Oliver Stone and Frank Darabont ALL of whom have given praise to the PT either directly or indirectly throughout the years.

Are all of them "delusional" too?

But I guess you can just shrug them off like you did with the TV advertisement I posted of excellent reviews from some of the most prominent reviewers in this country. All these people dont matter just like the TV spot "pfft" didnt matter. Oh yes. The only reviews or voices that "matter" are the negitive ones. Gotta love the double standards hateboys live by in the bubble they live in.

It is the hateboys who are the SW wing nuts who feel they need to constantly reinforce that their worldview is correct. Fans of the Star Wars Saga dont do this. They are the ones being forced on the defense by the people who are on the offense working and arguing to defame George Lucas's Star Wars Saga and discourage those who appreciate the artist and his now timeless art.

 

No, just you. You could put me on ignore, and I could do the same. However, I enjoy watching you so passionately defend your own idiocy. I'd also appreciate you not putting words in my mouth.

 

Obi-Rob,

I have several issues with what you say here.

1) Your view of who is/isn't a SW fan and your narrow and rigid definition of what a SW fan is/likes.
For example, in your narrow view there can't be anyone who likes the PT but still prefers the OOT because according to you anyone who prefers the OOT HATES the PT. My problem is your need to put all SW fans in two or three very rigid boxes and then claim that EVERYONE that likes the OOT hates the PT or such things. I find this pointless and a waste of time.
Face reality, there are probably as many kinds of SW fans as there ARE SW fans. Some love two movies, like three and dislike one. Others love one, like two and dislike three. Others still like the films but dislike TCW series. Still others are indifferent about the films but love the games. Etc.
Accept that people like/dislike different things and if a person disgrees with you then that this person might actually have valid reasons for doing so and isn't a part of any "hipster crowd."
I find this labeling stupid and also a bit insulting, talk to others as a person and not as some faceless member of some group.
Also I noticed that you placed the

2) The list you brought up.
This thread was started with the question "Do the media/critics/Hollywood have an agenda against SW and Lucas?"
Your list answers this question with a clear NO!
You have listed critics that have praised the PT, you have listed big names in Hollywood that have praised the PT, you have listed media that have offered prasie to SW/The PT and Lucas.
To my knowledge noone in this thread argued that NO critic liked the PT or that NOONE in Hollywood have prasied the PT/Lucas.
So your list puts an end to the idea that the EEEVIILL Media along with the EEEEVIILLL Critics and the EEEEVIIILLLL Hollywood have joined in an EEEEEEEEVIIIIIIILLLLLL conspiracy against Lucas and SW. Sone like it, others don't. The same is true for about every movie made.

3) A majority of critics have liked the PT. The PT have done very well at the BO. This is clear evidence that the films ARE liked.
Anyone that tries to argue otherwise is silly and ingores evidence.
So the people that like the PT have valid reasons for doing that.
But there are also some critics that have disliked the PT, as some did with the OT as well. Some moviegoers have also disliked the PT.
If the people that like the PT can have that as their honest opinion then the same respect should be given to those that didn't like it.
Saying that like is a real, honest opinion but dislike is not rubs me the wrong way.
You need to accept that some people plain didn't like the PT as much as you did and this is not due to some "herd mentality" or a "hipster crowd" or anything equally paranoid.

4) Lastly, I can not let your comment about "the rough cut" pass. What you call a "rough cut" made more money than any of the PT film in the US, note I am not including the 1997 re-release here. It wowed audiences and critics and won loads of awards. Second, caliing it a "rough cut" is a rather demeaning term. A rough cut is something that is never intended to be shown to a paying audience. I think it also demeans all those that worked very hard to make the movie what it is. Lucas was not totally happy with the film and there are many other film directors that think "I could have done this better" or something. But the bottmline is, he released the film and put his name on it and took in the money. That makes a finished film and not any kind of "rough cut."
Also, about the "intended order". Since Lucas made Star Wars (1977) first it is obvious that he INTENDED people to see it, despite them not having seen the PT first. And in the whole world I would say that the large majority of people have seen it 4-6, 1-3. Only after 2005 was it even POSSIBLE to see it 1-6. I would wager that there are people that saw it 1, 4-6 then 2-3. Or 2, 1, 4-6, 3, or 1-2, 4-6, 3.
You accues the "hate boys" for trying to dictate what order people should watch these films. That they spread disinformation. How is it disinformation to say that you prefer the order in which the films were MADE? Or that the OT was made first and the PT second. That is the way the world saw these films and yet that is somehow wrong and false? Even the very name, the Prequel Trilogy, says that these films are sequels to an original film/trilogy of films.

If anyone is trying to dictate anything it is Lucas. He is the one who tells people how they should watch these films, 1-6, that there is only one correct order. He also is the one who don't want people to see the OOT, that is should be forgotten. What is wrong with letting people make up their own minds?
Let them watch SW in any order they like. What is wrong with having the OOT around in good quality? Let people pick the version they like.

In closing, try to calm down.
Your obsession over what a few people on the internet say about SW is not healthy. Let it go, for your own good.

Bye
Blackboard Monitor

 

I wouldn't pay too much attention to what goes on in acertainpointofview.net. Especially when it comes to what The Fans think. Hell, there's even a write up about the evils of hateboys derected at me. http://acertainpointofview.net/?p=1305

 

Here's a difference between bashers and gushers.

Bashers have basher sanctuaries, echo chambers which non-haters are barred from entering, where they can engage in endless rhetorical masturbation and misrepresentation of the facts in an environment totally free from things like fact-checking or contrary viewpoints.

Gushers don't have sanctuaries, nor do they need them.

 

Jeez doesn't that sound familiar, minus the barring entrance to opposing viewpoints.

They aren't hated on as much as people think. Vocal minorities blow things out of proportion on both sides. I may be critical of the films, but even Attack of the Clones, my least liked film, still has some merits.

Except for The Clone Wars film. That was just **** with a capital S.

 

Actually that is incorrect.
Back in the day BOTH Gushers and Bashers had sanctuaries.

From the Gusher Sanc.

From the Basher Sanc.

Also everything was tolerated in these threads except Bashing/Gushing in the opposite Sanc.

The main reason why these became needed is that it had become difficult to talk about what you felt about the movies, good or bad, without those threads degenerating into flame brawls. One person could say, "I found the romance in AotC a little unbeliveable." and promtly be met with "YOU ARE A MINDLESS LUCAS HATER, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND HIS GENIUS." and things of that nature.

These days neither sanc is needed because the emotions had died down a little and people CAN debate the pros and cons of the movies without the need to insult the other side. In all, I view this as a good thing, talk about the issues raised and not the ones who are debating them.
"The Films, not the Fans." Good, sensible, rule.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

Yeah, if you take away the defining characteristic, everything is just one big indistinguishable blur, isn't it?

And today? Bashers still have sanctuaries, gushers don't.

 

Arawn said: Yeah, if you take away the defining characteristic, everything is just one big indistinguishable blur, isn't it?
---

pretty much yeah.

 

For any stubborn "warriors" out there who would deny this basic fact here is an excellent example:

http://acertainpointofview.net/?p=1603

This is the reality that otherwise innocent fans are forced to live with. This is what happens to us when we say simple simple statements like "I love Star Wars, all six films, flaws an all".

In many ways it basically is a WAR being waged on an entire generation. The generation who grew up with the PT. Clear as day example of what we are talking about:

http://acertainpointofview.net/?p=1448

The simple points made there are so true and relevant to this thread. Everyone I knew or saw or went to school with or grew up with had Episode 1 lunchboxes and PT/Saga lunchboxes and such. Yet the focused efforts by reviewers like that guy only ever try to cover up history and pressure people into trashing our whole generation. Their generation is "the real one" and we are all wrong for liking what we like and growing up with what we have grown up with. Its sad. Thats what they really fight for so hard when they troll and bash and attack SW the way they do. They are fighting (weather they realize it or not) for their own sense of self importance. And how telling that they are always the angry "outraged" ones with the strict sense of entitlement.

And the point is that the Saga fans dont do this. While this other petty, angry, destructive group does. The Saga fans and casual fans dont try to indoctrinate people and cover up history and make it "hip" to hate the thing they say they are "true fans" of and be proud of how intolerant they can be.

This is the answer to the question this thread asks. Becouse these people are the root cause and stubborn fuel for the BIAS against George Lucas and anything he is involved in in the modern day.

 

You're right, they don't have sanctuaries. They just scream in public.

 

And bashers are actually allowed to be there, imagine that!

 

Obi-rob4: Samuel Vines said it better than I could have:

treat everyone as an individual,

categorising people is not only simplistic it's also wrong in the extreme,

but like Anakinfan said, it's pointless continuing this really.

 

There is a backlash against the Prequel Trilogy, but attributing it to a planned Media conspiracy is a bit too far.

A lot of people did like the prequels, fans and general audiences in general and that's fine. I liked them when I saw them as a kid and while I see some problems with the entire Star Wars saga, I still enjoy watching the prequels. Overall, I consider the Original Movies to be superior films, but that doesn't mean that I think the prequels are bad in of themselves.

But criticisms against the prequels or against Star Wars shouldn't be laced together into one huge agenda...that's kind of broad and a little immature. Just because someone hates Star Wars that doesn't make their viewpoint any less credible than yours.

I like the Prequels, but I believe Phantom Menace was largely a waste in the grand scheme of things, Lucas relied too much on special effects, most of the conversations had boring and predictable patterns regardless of the subject-matter, There's a lot of badly written dialogue, and that Lucas micro-managed too much instead just being an overseer like he was while making the Original Trilogy. Does that make me part of some media agenda against the Prequels or Lucas?

I don't see why it should...

 

This is my reply:

http://acertainpointofview.net/?p=1331

And NO Star Wars film is "a wast". TPM set the stage for the entire Saga as well as an entire generation of imagination and creativity that still goes on today.

Thanks for calling my entire generation (as well as the new CW generation) a "wast". But I know im not allowed to feel insulted after a slap in the face like that.

 

Your reply is posting someone else's opinion?