PT Do you believe the media/critics had an agenda against the prequels

Wow, I haven't heard the old basher/gusher terms in a while. It's like stepping back into 2004.

...and now that I think about it, whatever happened to that nice old Golden Age Appreciation Society thread or whatever it was called? Oh yeah, it died after about a week. Curiouser and curiouser.

 

That response has nothing to do with what he said. He didn't accuse Lucas of only doing it for the money. He simply didn't appreciate the results of his style of control over his work...not because of any motive of "money". It was Lucas's right to micro-manage. Some though, based on the results (and heresay of what went on behind the scenes of each different film) think that Lucas micromanaging leads to less interesting work. So again, painting everyone with the same brush instead of actually listening to what they say as an individual human being.

 

hold on..

wheere in his post did he insult your generaration?

he simply said he didn't like TPM,

 

My reply is posting two web pages with paragraphs and paragraphs worth of rational, fact based, simple explanation to an insulting tired, sound bite someone felt they needed to post in regards to what is one of the most creative, discussed and special films of the last generation.

Not that im betting on it getting through the hateboy bubble though. Just trying to prove a point. But you already knew that anyways.

 

You can feel insulted, but why are you? He didn't say "and anyone who likes it is buying into that waste"! He said, he personally feels it was. Meaning, a different film could have set it up, or perhaps more time could have been devoted to other things and just been a "tighter" experience. I don't know. But to read that he is trying to insult you? That's stretching it. If TPM hadn't happened, the stage would simply have been set by a different film is all. No insult to any new SW generation implied.

 

Good god, if Darth_Zandalor feels TPM is a waste, let him! You can't "factually" prove it isn't anyway, so what's the point? Personally, I think the Han and Leia romance is a complete waste of time. And there's nothing wrong with that either.

I'll be honest, though, the one thing that bothers me is that I don't understand why criticism of Lucas is tolerated. Criticizing his work, I understand. But none of us knows the man personally and it just feels...unfair to criticize him as an individual when he isn't here to defend himself. That, and most information we have concerning him comes from interviews, which are by no means comprehensive.

That is one area where I feel critics can come across as overly negative. It's one thing to criticize a work since you can see it in its entirety, but quite another thing to take issue with a person or the creator of that work. Unless you know that person, you are forced to speculate on their motives which strikes me as unfair and disingenuous.

 

Considering I never actually said TPM was a waste, I just said I was more critical of the prequels, and that people thinking there was some sort of media conspiracy are acting delusional.

 

why do i get the feeling this thread will be locked soon?

 

It'll be for the best.

 

I don't know that I'd say it's "delusional," but I do think it's an unsubstantiated belief, personally. It can be said that there are a few people in the media who are "out to get" Lucas due to disappointment with the prequels. However, I think if we follow Occam's Razor here and accept the simplest assumption, it seems much more likely to me that these individual critics are all acting on their own but merely reflecting a common opinion. I guess it's "possible" that they could have a collective, organized agenda against Lucas, but I've seen no evidence for it personally.

Edit: And even if it were true, what exactly would that change? It would still be their opinions and they would have the right to voice them.

 

I think trying to figure out a "public personality" is fair game but of course it is largely up to speculation and in serious danger of oversimplifying and getting it completely wrong and actually revealing more about oneself in the analysis than the actual person being analyzed.

But at this point, his genius, his work habits, his life have become somewhat intertwined with the films themselves. It is kind of understandable why someone wants to know more about what goes on in the head of someone that uses that head to produce such works (the good and the not so good).

 

sinkie

I suppose it's inevitable that people will want to know more about a creator and speculate on his thought process given their interest in a work. It just makes me uncomfortable, though, when criticism is directed at a person who isn't there to defend themselves from accusations.

What I mean is...I think there's a difference between the two following criticisms:

A: "I felt uncomfortable watching TPM because the character of Jar Jar Binks reminded me of racist caricatures in Old Hollywood movies."

B: "George Lucas is a hack who creates racist characters like Jar Jar Binks."

Although I don't feel that Jar Jar is a racist caricature personally (I think he was probably a throwback to Charlie Chaplin), I have seen this criticism levied at TPM. And while I think that people have a right to express their opinions, I hope that you can understand why I dislike criticisms framed in terms of "B" -- they ascribe motives to Lucas while the first merely reflects the speaker's perception. And I do know that accusations of racism are very hurtful and I've personally never seen any evidence that Lucas is racist.

Edit: Or, put another way, if you want to argue that a particular film is racist, I think that's fair. To ascribe racism to the creator, though, wouldn't be, in my opinion.

 

delusional is a word hateboys LOVE to use.

Its their go to word. Its a big part of their rhetoric and language. They love to use this word in response to people who are fans of George Lucas and his Star Wars Saga.

Thats also how to tell when their stubborn determination to shout down any voice that would dare to break the trend and defend Star Wars has brought you in a complete circle.

Its so telling that now a days 8 out of 10 times they begin and end with calling you delusional. Another words, if you hear the word delusional being thrown at you at the beginning of the conversation and then again at the end of the conversation you know you have been taken for a full ride on the "we wont let you get away with being proud of SW" roller coaster that they force all of us to ride.

What Saga fans are simply saying is...that we are sick of being forced to ride this roller coaster that we have been riding for the last 14 years. We think that people on the internet should be allowed to openly like Star Wars without being forced onto the old roller coaster.

 

You're not being forced onto anything. Nobody forced you to reply to this topic. Nobody forces you to read anything you don't want to read. And nobody is preventing you from openly liking Star Wars. These restrictions and barriers only exist in your mind, created by your anger and resentment towards anyone who critiques any of the movies in the saga. You seriously need to take a step back and reevaluate your life priorities.

 

OBI-ROB: EH?

again you're reading what you want to read instead of reading the posts,

no one in this thread has called anyone Delusional for liking star wars,

this is a Star wars forum, why would people who hate it log on to post and have over 1,000 messages? would be a rather pointless thing to do wouldn't it?

 

Boom!

See how the hateboys goal is to not allow conversation of what the root cause of the bias against Lucas is. Or that there even is a bias which the past 4 pages of this thread clearly prove that there IS.

The point of this thread is to acknowledge and discuss the bias. Now if you can simply incite enough arguments while denying the very existence of the thing you fight over than you can get the thread locked and the discussion ends. And thats how the hateboys cover it all up. Thats how they operate. The last thing they want is for people to acknowledge and question the bias. Because they are the preservers of the bias.

There is absolutely no reason to lock this thread. Every discussion had here is 100% ON TOPIC. Dont let them cover it up now.....

 

I said that people who seriously believe in this "conspiracy" are delusional, not that liking Star wars makes you deluded.

EDIT
Okay now you're just seeing things that you want to see.

 

...well, I'm out. Logic and reasoning seem to have no place in this discussion. Fevered ranting and paranoia seem to be the way to go.

 

Double standard alert. Nobody forced you to keep coming back and replying to this topic. Nobody forces you to read anything you dont want to read. Nobody is restricting YOU from openly hating Star Wars. We just want you to stop attacking us and anything/everything Lucas ever does. We want you to stop your campaign to label us as "delusional" for liking Star Wars.

Like ANH was forced to say a year ago in regards to your crusade:

So to all the Yunners in the world who see me as “dillusional” [sic], I’ll say again you are free to hate Star Wars and George Lucas for all the good it will do. However, if you insist on spreading that hate in a campaign to ruin other fans’ good time or try to force an artist into conforming to your personal tastes and whims, then you’re being a hateboy. And I’m going to say so.


And I posted many, MANY examples of "Logic and reasoning" all throughout this thread but you didn't want to hear any of it.

 

But... I don't hate Star Wars or Lucas, which just proves my point, really.
And I'm not the one claiming I'm being oppressed. It's not a double standard when the conditions aren't the same.

 

Oh, he came back. Gee... why would anyone keep coming back to something they disagree with so much that no one is forcing them to reply to?

 

Same could be said about yourself, really.

 

this thread reminds me of an impending car crash, you can't help in just having a peek

 

I responded out of politeness. It's called common courtesy. If I hadn't, you'd probably complain that the hateboys are ignoring you. when begs the question, why reply to me in the first place if you knew I wouldn't respond?

That was rhetorical by the way. No need to reply, because I won't respond this time.

 

This is the evidence HERE: http://acertainpointofview.net/?p=1728

And there is truck loads where that came from.

There is ample evidence. Presented, talked about and pointed out that some simply just keep ignoring. It is very frustrating when someone keeps denying something that they are presented with for going on 5 pages worth of posts.

The OP started this thread out of acknowledgement of said evidence.

Read the thread people. Read it from the first page and see if you dont notice the patterns of which the OP speaks.

Please READ through the thread before you post. Its only common etiquette.