Do you feel Qui-Gon's importance in the film is necessary?

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by DarthTorgo, Apr 4, 2002.

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Do you feel Qui-Gon's importance in the film is necessary?

Poll closed Mar 22, 2012.
Yes. 160 vote(s) 69.0%
No. 63 vote(s) 27.2%
I have no idea. 9 vote(s) 3.9%
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  1. DarthTorgo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2002
    star 4
  2. ElfStar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2001
    star 4
    You bring up a good point Torgo. In fact, we know he wasn't all that necassary, given the fact he wasn't even in the early drafts. Personally I would have preferred the developement of Obi-Wan's character to Qui-Gon.
  3. POLUNIS Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 2
    I think so, and here is why: Qui-Gon provides Anakin with the father figure that he never had. You well know that Obi-Wan and Anakin are 10 years apart, so they are more like brothers than anything, IMO. This, of course, by no means diminishes Obi-Wan's importance, but I think that it was a nice touch to give Anakin a "father" in the form of Qui-Gon.
  4. DarthStymi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2002
    star 3
    Dooko's role also seem to add MUCH more meaning to his Qui-Gon's role. Also, it shows the growth of Obi-Wan, who has taken on the master's role. Part of Qui-Gon's defience mat also help to explain Obi-Wan's failure.
  5. mjerome3 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2000
    star 6
    Of course it is. He discovered Anakin. He was instrumental in setting him free. He wanted him trained. And he was correct about the prophecy of the one who would bring balance to the Force.
  6. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    Maybe not so necessary for the film, but for the the rest of the saga, certainly yes...

    I see Qui Gon as the "Ben Kenobi of the PT".

    Anakin loses his father figure in TPM, Obi Wan is too young to fill this gap, and Palpatine can easily take him over...

    hence Qui Gon.
  7. BenQ Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2001
    star 2
    I don't know about necessary, but certainly desirable. (at least for me)
  8. Oakessteve Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 9, 1999
    star 6
    At the time, I felt it was a bit of a waste of two rather good characters, that being Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon himself. Now, the reason why I think it's a waste of Obi-Wan's character is because he had next to nothing to do in The Phantom Menace, and the reason why I think it's a waste of Qui-Gon's character is because out of all of the characters in The Phantom Menace, it was his that was fleshed out the most, and the one who we got to know, and then....BAM....he gets killed off, so you wonder quite what the point of him was. At least, that's the way I see it.
  9. Obischick Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2001
    star 4
    Good points Oakessteve. I also feel that Obi-Wan's character wasn't fleshed out enough in TPM. All he did was follow Qui-Gon around. I just wish that insted of Qui doing everthing, Obi would do some stuff too. When Obi finally started speaking up when talking to BN about symbyotic life forms I thought "Good, Obi is his own self" and then they totally, i don't know...forgot he had a personality.

    It's so frustrating because Ewan is such a good actor. So is Liam, but then Liam got a character with feeling.

    ~Obischick
  10. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    He wasn´t necessary, but he´s still a great character and I wouldn´t replace him with more Obi-Wan for the world.
  11. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    Qui Gon getting killed in the duel with Maul on Tatooine could have been the best of both worlds...

    But I wouldn't worry on Obi Wan's character development too much, we really didn't get to know the real Han Solo until TESB...

    (oh, and for the sudden wipe-out of Qui Gon, consider it a warning for fist time viewers of the saga not to get too attached to a character.)

  12. Patrick Russell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    i But I wouldn't worry on Obi Wan's character development too much, we really didn't get to know the real Han Solo until TESB...

    We got to know Han a LOT better in ANH than we got to know Obi Wan in TPM. Yes, it wasn't till ESB that Han's character deepened, but at least his general character was established in the first film. What little we see of Obi Wan in TPM is little more than a patchwork quilt of various, seemingly randomly-chosen character traits which never really come together to make that much of an overall impression. And much of this is due to the fact that he's not involved in the entire center section of the film. IMHO, he either needed to go to Mos Espa, or else he needed to have his own little adventure/conflict back at the Queen's ship rather than just being a concerned voice at the end of a comlink.

    Obi Wan needed some basic character development in TPM, and IMHO he didn't get it.
  13. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    Obi Wan is displayed as what he is at the time:

    Just an average Jedi apprentice.

    It's only storytelling logic that Qui Gon gets fleshed out more, he gets one episode,
    Obi Wan gets four...
  14. SomeRandomNerd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    If Obi Wan wasn't in Episode IV and/or acted by Ewan MacGregor, no-one would be complaining about his supposed lack of character development. Should Lucas be writing his characters around his actors now? Blowing his load in Episode I, rather than building up to Episode III (or VI...)?

    A character is defined by his relationship with others. Obi Wan is defined by his relationship with Qui Gon, the Jedi Council and Anakin.

    Does no-one else find it interesting that Anakin and Obi Wan now share a (dead) father figure, rather than Obi Wan being Anakin's father figure?

    That their father-figure is the Living Force personified- with fantastic powers that can be used for righteousness (liberating Naboo, rescuing the Queen, freeing Anakin) but just as easily abused (cheating, stealing etc.) One who preached that "your focus determines your reality", and will doubless be seen in a very different light by Obi Wan and Anakin by the end of Episode III?

    That his existence at the start of the saga provides a book-end to mirror Luke at the end of the saga?
  15. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    Exactly, the big picture...
  16. Patrick Russell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    Sure, if you want to look at it in abstract "fanboys researching the history of a fictitious universe" sort of way, I imagine that the detached, bare-bones, relatively soulless exposure we got to Obi Wan in TPM could be considered "interesting". I just think it would have been nice to get a sense of HIM rather than merely learning his role in events on a timeline.

    Yes, we can certainly see who Obi Wan is in a strictly narrative sense in relation to events in the story, but we rarely see more than the briefest of reactions from him to those events. There's no hub to his character in TPM... it's all a bunch of fairly random spokes. Had he actually been in the movie more and DONE something more often than he did, rather than just walking in Qui Gon's shadow and saying "Yes Master" all the time, we might have gotten a better sense of who the guy is.

    At this point, we basically just know WHAT he is. That's the difference.
  17. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    What are random spokes to you are characterisations to me...

    Amongst others, Obi Wan's line "Why do I sense we picked up another pathetic lifeform?" tells me a lot about his still immature character.
  18. Patrick Russell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    Sure, there are moments like that, but they don't strike me as being part of a cohesive character. I mean after all, this is the same guy who in another part of the film is lecturing the Gungans about symbiosis between lifeforms. And there's never really any point in the movie where this split in Obi Wan's outlook is addressed... so yes, to me it seems random and unconnected. IMHO Obi Wan isn't given a clear core personality which draws this random stuff together into facets of a character.

    YMMV
  19. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    That's what I'm trying to say, his character isn't really developed yet, literal.

    TPM learned me this about Obi Wan:

    - He's cynical
    - He's sceptical towards his master
    - He has a bad sense of humor
    - He's loyal

    That's really all I need to know so far, AOTC will show a more balanced and mature Obi Wan.

    I even dare to say that Obi Wan at least got as much exposure in TPM as Han in ANH (don't let the appeal of the character fool you)
  20. Patrick Russell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. From where I sit, Han was a much more cohesive character in ANH than Obi Wan was in TPM. What we saw of Obi Wan in TPM was mainly disconnected character fragments, without a clear center to bring them together. And a lot of that was the fact that Lucas just jammed him in the glove compartment for the entire middle section of the movie, when most of the opportunity for character development occurred.

    My feeling is that you could have had all the character fragments that you and I both appear to have noticed (our differing opinions about them notwithstanding) in all the same parts of the movie, only with Obi Wan either going to Mos Espa or else having some side adventure at the Queen's ship, and it would have likely given him enough additional screen time and interaction with other characters to bring some sort of cohesion to the bits and pieces of character that he displayed throughout the remainder of the movie.

  21. naw ibo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 5
    If Obi Wan wasn't in Episode IV and/or acted by Ewan MacGregor, no-one would be complaining about his supposed lack of character development. Should Lucas be writing his characters around his actors now? Blowing his load in Episode I, rather than building up to Episode III (or VI...)?


    I can't speak for anyone else, but I was an Obi-Wan Kenobi fan long before I'd ever heard of Ewan McGregor.

    Otherwise, what Patrick Russell said.
  22. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. From where I sit, Han was a much more cohesive character in ANH than Obi Wan was in TPM. What we saw of Obi Wan in TPM was mainly disconnected character fragments, without a clear center to bring them together. And a lot of that was the fact that Lucas just jammed him in the glove compartment for the entire middle section of the movie, when most of the opportunity for character development occurred.

    No, I don't agree to disagree, because again, I agree.
    The only difference is our interpretation: You think it's a flaw, I think it is done on purpose, for reasons that are in and beyond TPM.
  23. SkottASkywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    Yes, Qui-Gon's importance in the film is necessary.
  24. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    It's the phantom in TPM, nothing in this film is what it seems...

    Background characters are in the foreground (Qui Gon, JarJar)

    and lead characters (to be) are (still) in the background (Obi Wan, Palpatine)

    Anakin's introduction is unimpressive by design (no music!)

    That's not the way to do a complete story, but it is a good way to start a saga.
    If episode I had been the first release, nobody would be complaining, because we simply wouldn't know better. (this includes naw ibo)

    You may blame that on Lucas...

  25. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    Having Qui-Gon be the main character was necessary to explain why Obi-wan wasn't ready to take on an apprentice so soon after being promoted to Jedi Knight, why Anakin will be disobedient and show lack of respect for Obi-wan, and how it will be the beginning of Anakin's descent to the darkside when he loses Qui-Gon and winds up having a guy who called him "dangerous" and a "pathetic lifefore" as his master.
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