Lit Do you like the new canon?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Lord Sith Harloxzz, Sep 8, 2017.

  1. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    I'm sorry but no, basically, every time i present an argument you don't engage with it.
    Jedi Ben likes this.
  2. Point_Of_View Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2017
    star 2
    Untrue. You just don't like my answers.
  3. DarthPhilosopher Jedi Master

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    Jan 23, 2011
    star 4
    Jedi Ben and vncredleader like this.
  4. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    I've put him on my Ignore so I don't have to anymore. :)
  5. vncredleader Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2016
    star 4
    I feel like a little kid who has been kept up by his parents fighting all night......in the words of boss nass

    PEACE
    [IMG]
  6. Mia Mesharad Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    You're allowed to withdraw from the discussion without making an ass of yourself first. It's actually encouraged.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Sep 30, 2017
  7. comradepitrovsky Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2017
    star 3
    Can you go back to the bad corners of the internet, please?

    And on Yom Kippur, really.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Sep 30, 2017
  8. Contessa Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2013
    star 3
    ...why are you like this?
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Sep 30, 2017
    Mia Mesharad and Jedi Ben like this.
  9. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 7
    Welcome to the club .
  10. Pacified_llama Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2017
    star 2
    The thread is gradually falling to the Dark Side. First just annoying and irritating, with gradual increases in silliness until it becomes merely offensive nonsense. We're now in the final stage.
    Someone help us with some good ideas.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Sep 30, 2017
  11. The Positive Fan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2015
    star 4
    As was mine, it turns out. One of the occupational hazards of being an optimist. Not that I plan to stop being one, of course [face_peace]
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  12. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 7
    Well, with your username, how could you stop being an optimist? ;)
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  13. Pacified_llama Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2017
    star 2
    Let's change gears here with some urgency.

    We've talked at great length about TFA. What of the inter-OT canon, such as the Rebels continuity and R1 itself. Or even such canon novels as Tarkin.
    Since they are effectively replacements for the Legends EU that was written in those time frames - who likes the direction in which it's going?

    As a side note - I don't know a huge amount of Rebels on an episode by episode basis, so I don't know how well it holds up compared to other animated/cartoon based canon, such as The Clone Wars TV series.

    Personal reflections to kick start things:
    • Some intriguing characters in R1, fleshing out the universe beyond the dichotomy of the Jedi/Sith plot spanning the saga, though unfortunate that it's effectively a write off in terms of the death of these characters in the film itself. Rebels is doing this too, though I think there is an inherent target audience constraint (could discuss the target audience at length, perhaps)
    • A positive that the new canon is taking time to flesh out secondary villains/heroes in a way that Legends often did with success. Tarkin was a refreshing change that cleared out some of awful canon that had been built around the character.
    • R1 is probably the closest thing SW is getting to fan service within the film franchise - I think a lot people should have been appreciative of this, given their frequent lambasting otherwise. I happen to think TFA was not an fan service, and that they were thinking on rather different lines for the ST.
    • The canon built around the OT has made it harder for the new viewer to gain an experience which is truly impactful in terms of revelation of the Death Star, mysteriousness of the characters etc. So the watching order for films is no longer as straightforward, no longer optimally watched chronologically.
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  14. Coherent Axe Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 2016
    star 1
    Rebels has been great, and I think both it and Rogue One have been good at showing some definitive versions of EU events like the beginnings of the Rebellion and the Death Star plans kerfuffle. I much prefer Rogue One's take to the many we got in the EU, and it keeps the emotional drama of, say, Bria Tharen's contribution while still being a fascinating delve into the WEG-era Rebellion. It feels like classic Star Wars in a way TFA doesn't, simply because TFA takes the icons of the OT and remixes them. Rogue One settles into the space occupied not only by the OT but OT-era EU as well, from WEG through Dark Forces and newer stuff like The Force Unleashed -- and it also slides PT references into the mix. It's much more interconnected to the franchise as a whole rather than the OT specifically, and because of that it feels like a real treat for fans. Even small moments like hearing Vader's ANH theme while on Mustafar connects the disparate parts of the franchise.

    And yes, as for fleshing out the secondary characters, it's been done well with Tarkin and Mon Mothma, for instance, though there are still plenty who haven't been used at all yet. Jango Fett was obviously all the rage circa 2002, but now that his day in the limelight has passed, I wonder how long it'll be before we get material to rival or replace Open Seasons and Bounty Hunter, for instance. Boba as well, hasn't really been given a definitive story like The Last One Standing Yet, and is really just Generic Smart-Mouthed Mercenary so far. That said, I figure they're saving him for bigger material later down the line.

    So I think it's interesting that some stuff feels definitive in a way the EU wasn't, but there are still a lot of gaps that Lucasfilm doesn't seem to be in a hurry to fill.
  15. Pacified_llama Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2017
    star 2
    Lucasfilm want to strike the right mix between the ST development and pushing out canon in the original saga, and I think the focus will always be on the former, at least for the next few years.
    That said, the anthology film effort is very substantial - I actually find it a little surprising.

    It will be curious note whether they completely re-engineer back stories for characters like Fett, or whether they borrow liberally from Legends. In cases like these, the author behind the work is critical. If you take a look at Thrawn, for instance, Tim Zahn was in a compelling position to bring over some of the creative ideas he utilized decades earlier, and he had that purview and insight. Writers have often developed a sense of possession with their creations and when the new canon is taken up by as-yet-unknown authors, the tone and focus will shift accordingly.

    It is interesting, too, to compare novels written by EU veterans like Zahn, Luceno etc. next to new entrees into the canon. Because with the new canon, you can argue they're all on a level playing field - especially with cases like Tarkin.
    Unlikely, I think that we'll see any sustained effort on a novel series, a trilogy for example, while Rebels still runs - there is a lot of different media occupying a narrow time frame at the moment to make it somewhat saturated.
  16. Coherent Axe Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 2016
    star 1
    It's interesting to be present at the start of this growth of material; I came into the EU I guess around Shadows of the Empire era (probably earlier, but that's the first main work I remember becoming absorbed by) so a lot of the material already felt established and part of the fabric for me. Now I'm noticing a lot more judgement about each new creation and change the new canon brings in, and because it's all so new it feels less thought-out and structured than, say, the Thrawn Trilogy. The dynamics in that, like the New Republic and the roles of the Big Three, felt kinda inevitable following on from ROTJ, but while the new canon has borrowed bits and pieces (like the NR), it feels like it's going against "conventional wisdom" in places to diverge the new stories from what came before. It feels a bit... untested, I suppose, and we haven't had a story of Heir to the Empire's calibre to make the most of the new concepts yet.
  17. Pacified_llama Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2017
    star 2
    There is a conscious and deliberate effort to not emulate the old canon in the novels - it sticks out a lot because a novel is naturally far more detailed at the immediate level than something on screen.

    But the point is, it can't really mirror the old canon, because the new canon is not serving the same role - the development is incomparable to an extent. The EU, when it launched, was a spin-off. The current canon is interpolated among the new film franchise. That's the key difference.

    It is in fact a far more traditional way of developing a franchise. Spin-offs on the scale of post-ROTJ EU, or pre TFM-EU are really quite rare.
    Last edited by Pacified_llama, Sep 30, 2017
  18. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 7
    Rogue One had a sequence that I've wanted to see done for probably 20 years - yeah, that group Y-Wing ion torpedo attack on a Star Destroyer. It then went and dialed things up to 11 with the Hammerhead strategy!

    Rebels is an interesting one, which I go into more detail here:
    http://eleven-thirtyeight.com/2016/08/watching-the-clone-wars-and-its-all-star-wars-rebels-fault/

    I've really enjoyed the change of tack in rendering the Empire far more vile, which was a departure from Legends - the Imperial case is far more lacking in the new canon for me.

    My one ambivalence is with the ST, which is why I want to see it in its entirety before going an internet rage rant.
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  19. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    I'd argue that New Trilogy is meant to be TTT equivalent.

    I also think Lost Stars and Bloodline are easily two of the best Star Wars novels ever written.
  20. blackmyron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    The OT material just seems like more of the same - hey, it's another Death Star origin story, now it's Luke in his early days as a Jedi-in-training. It was fine, but nothing particularly grabbed me. Like I said before, I enjoyed watching Rogue One, and I also enjoyed Rebels to a lesser extent, but neither made me particularly interested in the universe of New Star Wars. Maybe seeing them through the lens of the RPG might change my mind, but I doubt it.

    My favorite era, the NR days... well, to paraphrase a recent comment, what is Star Wars with 'wars'? I guess we'll see. Abruptly truncating the fight with the Empire didn't really do that much for me.

    As far as the ST era, it doesn't interest me in the slightest at this time.

    Some minor points to be sure - I love in-universe works and information-rich guidebooks. Both have taken a nose-dive in the New Canon. Additionally, my favorite character since I was a child - Wedge - has been reduced to 'just some guy' - not exactly a great way to encourage me to invest time and energy in their universe, especially since it was the Rogue Squadron books that convinced me to do so for the Expanded Universe.

    Ultimately, I am curious to see the direction after the new trilogy concludes. We'll see what happens.
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  21. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    I admit, I feel the same way about the OT.

    I've seen all of this.

    Can't we get to the Sequel Trilogy? That's the REAL Star Wars now. I feel like I'm getting nothing but appetizers before the main course.
  22. Pacified_llama Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2017
    star 2
    And that, if the trend proves true, is the focus of Lucasfilm notwithstanding - and all your wishes be granted in TLJ. ;)
  23. Rax Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2015
    star 3
    I like the new canon more than the old canon, I'll be honest and say it's because I started with the new canon a few years ago and stuck with it. I know a lot about the old EU (thanks wookieepedia) and read some actual released content. I do have some problems with the old EU aswell. I agree with @Charlemagne19 about sequel trilogy, we're waiting for the main course and the gap between RotJ and TFA (which is left so vague because they can't release it until the ST is completely out, probably because there would be spoilers).
  24. Talos of Atmora Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2016
    star 4
    I wish that there would be a commitment to someday make a film (or series, whatever works) that completely detaches from those things and goes into the midst of the war in the same way that Republic Commando and Dark Times did. Frankly, Rebels had a chance to do this but it ended up shooting itself in the foot with a number of creative decisions.

    Also, what the hell happened here?
    Last edited by Talos of Atmora, Sep 30, 2017
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  25. vncredleader Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2016
    star 4
    are you referring to the pages of fighting? Yeah um everything's fine now, had a slight weapons malfunctions but we're all fine now uh, how are you?