Lit Do you like the new canon?

A junkyard planet, a forested snow planet with a great saber fight, a forested temple with a battle by the river. I don't see what's so derivative about that.

 

Compare Raxus Prime to Jakku. Jakku pales in comparison if we're really going by the description "junkyard planet".

So, Yavin 4?

I'd happily concede this point if said battle was not taking place on Starkiller Base, which is derivative of the Death Star.

 

This is a very exhausting thread (and I don't really mean that in a negative way).

It's pretty much a given that we can't objectively criticize against the old EU. But people set themselves up for disappointment by using even the first few years of the old EU as the 'Gold Standard' for future developments.

As I have said before, the franchise is now in an entirely different position and is constrained by different rules. Novels and the expanded universe no longer serve as the continuation of the main plot, but rather as secondary/subsidiary sources supporting the Sequel Trilogy. Remember, the original EU grew up in a vacuum - the new canon does not. The latter must live with, and synthesize with, a continuing, live film franchise. It ultimately comes down to a matter of taste. But it not that simplistic. Many were very fond of the medium of the EU - specifically the idea that we could have Star Wars stories told with the greater level of detail and breadth that the written word (compared with that of a visual medium) allows.

Therefore, people were fond of the EU as they were fond of reading books in general, of reading comics in general. But that component to SW, it was never the original vision of SW; it was never 'literary' - it was always a visual feast, a technological masterpiece as much as anything else. People make such complaints as "it was derivative", "it lacked depth" etc. These observations are quite right - but any franchise is constrained within the framework in which it operates. That framework gives precedence to the ST, indeed gives full precedence back where it belongs to the movie screen, as it was in 1977.

I wonder whether anyone thinks from this realist perspective. You just can't place such lofty demands on what are effectively tie in novels, media etc. I wish we could delete the EU from memory for the purposes of this thread because it is so obstructive to useful discussion. The EU was so bizarrely unique - it's not normal for a film franchise to spawn over 20 years of continuous publication of story with enough content to effectively tell not just Episodes VII to IX, but from VII onwards up to C. But like all great ideas, indeed, great people, they are often undone by their own greatness, gathering such momentum that they cannot help but fly off the metaphorical rails into disaster - whether that's disaster due to poor continuity, poor storytelling, or whatever. The new canon doesn't intend to be truly independent or truly pioneering - it will be to its advantage.

 

It's far too subjective to compare individual stories. My main issues are the overall events of the post-RotJ timeline and the aforementioned filmcentricity. It is an objective statement that the NuCanon revolves around the films. This is just the sad reality of the situation. I personally prefer the days where there were no films and the books and comics told their own grand stories. But some people like film universes and good for them.

 

A fair number. You're by no means the first to make the points you do, above, because this is by no means the first thread of its type we've seen over the last few years.

 

But how do I, who have not read the extra material, know that? All we see are one or two crashed SD:s and one ATAT. It is not like Jakku is SW's answer to Chittagong Ship Breaking Yard or the all people walk around in scavenged Imperial uniforms and coveralls

I would more say that it was a sand desert world without real personalitey, with som junk on it

Taiga planet, the word you are loking for is taiga planet.
And I have to agree with that SKB was something new for SW and something I don't think me have seen in SF-movies

Beside Maz's castle and the view from space, both which I like, Takodana don't really get any personality. We see no natives, indigenous animals, other architecture or unearthly flora. In that time we see the main characters walking around outside the castle the film makers could at least have shown us something.

 

Indeed - I have no claim to originality in what I'm say here. It is merely mildly wearying to see the same arguments constantly recycled.
In fact, far from being realist, I'd ironically rather be idealist and come to expect new ideas and new interpretations - to justify another thread of the type.

I sometimes want to shout "It's a Trap!" with threads like these.

 

I definetly don't hate the new canon and quite like certain parts of it, but I don't necessarilly like it as a whole. There are certainly elements of it I don't like. One example being the speed of the Empire's fall after Endor.

 

It's by no means an all or nothing thing. There's no requirement to like it all and there shouldn't be. I don't think you'll find a single fan who likes all of the 'new' canon but I don't think you'll find a single fan who liked all of the Legends canon either. Heck, we don't even have to like all of the films.

 

While I can see what you're going for and would agree they started it off as this supportive, satellite role I'm not sure it has stayed that way.

The reason is, if we go with the idea that they are looking to offer an array of SW products, across various mediums, but that no one is required to go for all of it, then that does give a bit more independence and leeway than would have been expected at the start.

In this respect I'd see the inclusion of more gay characters to be, in part, taking advantage of the medium of books being lower profile than the films. With the books establishing this, it will be easier for a film to do so at a later date, sadly albeit probably still with controversy.

A different strand is the way AND and Catalyst impact Rebels and Rogue One. Neither is required for viewing those, but if you do read either, it does change how you view that which it is linked to.

Therefore, overall, I do think the new canon is more ambitious than it is being given credit for. I remain ambivalent about the ST, but I like the ambition to try to unify pieces of the story into an epic spanning 60 years and multiple generations.

 

There are multiple examples of this in canon. Before the Awakening and Bloodline color TFA differently in all sorts of ways, to offer another. The tradeoff for having the novels and comics sticking close to the films and adding shading to them rather than being the vanguard of storytelling in their own right is that, as you said, the whole ends up feeling like a richer and more unified experience. One of the reasons that I, for one, am loving the new canon.

 

I'll get back to you about the effect on TFA in, oh say just under 3 years now?

 

I can certainly see that. There is a danger in assuming that because the flagship products are subsidiary that must follow that everything else being put out is and shall be the same.

Perhaps it is more accurate to say that the idea of independence hasn't been pushed to the forefront, which was sort of a necessity back in 1991. So again we return to the idea of circumstance and timing. Indeed, sometimes we lead ourselves astray trying to argue that any of this is due to some full-fledged authorial/editorial intention - sometimes it's just a case of "right place, right time" - or whatever.

 

I'll look forward to it!

 

It might be because I liked the prequels, but even if I hated them I'd think there's a difference between "playing it safe" and "being too derivative". Especially when you consider that while some of the decisions (killing off the Jedi, breaking up Han and Leia, Leia not being a Jedi) could be considered "safe" in that it's the status quo the audience is familiar with, but it's also a risk in that those decision could be controversial and piss off fans.

 

For me this is another one of those cases where Legends and Canon both have some positives and some negatives.

In Legends I thought they dragged on the GCW way too long, but I also liked the thematic elements of an Empire collapsing into squabbling warlords.

In Canon I think they wrapped up the GCW way too quickly, but I also like that our heroes get a bit of a breather and a chance to enjoy a peaceful era instead of jumping from crisis to crisis.

If I had it my way, I would have had Jakku be 2 or 3 years after Endor instead of 1, to get the best of both worlds.

Also over in the From Endor to Jakku thread we've talked about some things that make the Empire's fall a bit more plausible. (The fact that so many Imps fled into the Unknown Regions, massive civilian uprisings ala Twilight Company and the boardgame Star Wars Rebellion, ect.)

 

i love the new canon to me its had some ups and downs but i cant say i hate any of it ! IT would be great if lucasfilm gave a time frame or area that the books and comics can own and do their own thing with new characters and worlds

 

I can't compare as I only entered the literacy world of star wars because of the reset, it made it an easy jump on point. To me the output quality had been high. I own all the novels and middle grade stuff too. Even the rebels chapter novelisations have been entertaining.

There's been some poor stories ( join the resistance series I'm not enjoying much, and Yodas secret war wasn't great compared to say Skywalker strikes)

But overall I have no complaints!

 

I can only say I hate the post-RotJ NuCanon for the story. As for the pre-RotJ stories, I can't say I have a problem- I just don't care. The NuCanon is only covering eras we've seen before in the EU; I don't want to reread entire eras.

 

New canon? Nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.

 

Then its impossible for you to be satisfied because of how broad the eras covered were in Legends. Literally, it would just be limited to the thousand years of peace and the time between the FotJ stuff and Legacy.

 

The billions of years before DOTJ, the 20,000 years between DOTJ and TOTJ, the thousand year New Sith Wars, the thousand year peace, the gaps between the NJO series, DNT, LOTF, and FOTJ, the 90 year gap between Crucible and Legacy. Going further past Legacy, The Unknown Regions, the Yuuzhan Vong galaxy, etc. I'd rather get stories in the EU than the NEU. Wraith Squadron missions in Hutt space, the hunt for the Dagger of Mortis, Abeloth's previous escapes and her next escape. Blood Oath, the Throne of Balance, SOTJ, and more.

 

The thing is - the whole justification for ditching the EU was that the ST and the EU could not co-exist (without throwing any notion of canon out the window.)
That's the bottom line.

The EU will continue to appear impressively huge for a number of years yet - but it isn't being stoked by any new stories, so it will eventually drift into insignificance - a footnote of what once was.

 

And if you want to tell stories about the Skywalkers and only the Skywalkers?

 

ST.