Lit Do you like the new canon?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Lord Sith Harloxzz, Sep 8, 2017.

  1. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    I love the new canon and think it's blown away everything but Shatterpoint among the Prequels.

    TFA is awesome if flawed.
    Stymi likes this.
  2. unironically Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2017
    star 1
    Perhaps they seem like minor issues or maybe they're oddly specific, but they get the point across quickly. The whole movie feels wrong on an instinctual level for me. It's too aggressive, too self-aware, too restless, too unwholesome. The traitor boss fight just ticks me off in so many areas. How ugly and cheap the background is, how all the rubble looks like it's made out of cardboard. How flimsy and thin that trooper armor seems. It looks like a youtube parody or a tv movie, I can't take it seriously.

    School shooter Ben having an outburst of rage? Ok, but can you really afford to turn your films only source of edge into comedic relief that fast? Was J.J. Abrams really that insecure about his ideas?

    "who talks first? you talk first? I talk first?" Phew, yikes. That was embarrassing. The movie had merely just begun and I was already sweating in my seat, glancing side to side. I wanted to ****ing vanish right then and there.

    More examples:

    [IMG]

    I wonder how difficult it would have been for that idiot to put his helmet on straight? They could have at least fixed this in post.

    Or worse, maybe they did it on purpose. Maybe they did it ironically. (Like the way I'm nitpicking on extras right now.) It's unforgivable and really speaks volumes of whats wrong with Star Wars today.


    [IMG]

    Stop having fun please.

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    What is this facial expression meant to convey?

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    The annoying orange is the key to all of this.
  3. Sniper_Wolf Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2002
    star 4
    Someone expecting a certain reaction by posting the question in Literature, n'est pas?

    I'm going to narrow my response to a microcosm of the debate since I am reading Inferno Squad, and I am spectacularly lazy. I enjoy the complexity of good and evil in the NuCanon versus the derided attempts at grey morality that ate @Jedi Ben's chips. Cats like Sloane (I remembered the e this time) and the previously mentioned Inferno Squad have admirable traits, are probably nice to have dinner with, and are still, inescapably, felgercarb. Sinjir and new Leia can be cantankerous (again, what is a reader expecting out of a former Imperial political commissar?) and disagreeable at times, but they are still fighting for the light. A lot of the Legends writers fell into the grey point-of-view mode of writing, rather Zahn inherently disproving his own thesis on how Star Wars is Light versus Dark, or Stover using pretty sentences to coverup an undergraduate application of Beyond Good and Evil. Extrapolate from this whatever you want.
    comradepitrovsky and Jedi Ben like this.
  4. JediBatman Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2015
    star 3
    @unironically . . . OK I'm not certain if you're joking or not. Because at first you admitted that you were "nitpicking on extras", but then you said "It's unforgivable and really speaks volumes of whats wrong with Star Wars today" as if you were serious.

    [IMG]

    Hey look, Boba Fett's antennae is on the wrong side in ROTJ! I know detractors of ROTJ like to mention the Ewoks, and defenders like to mention the emotional confrontation between Luke and Vader, but screw all that, Boba's antanae is on the wrong side! Who cares about acting, special effects, characters, and plot, minor continuity errors that happen in literally every film ever made are what decides if the movie is good or bad!
    Last edited by JediBatman, Sep 11, 2017
  5. Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 8
    I love it, to be fair. I lament what we have lost, but I love it too.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  6. Ewoklord Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2014
    star 1

    Some of the Storm Troopers in Ep. IV don't have the grilles on the side of their helmets! Disgusting! I personally refuse to acknowledge that movie.
    Last edited by Ewoklord, Sep 11, 2017
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  7. Blackhole E Snoke Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2016
    star 4
    Lol I had never noticed that the film there is mirrored.
  8. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    I remember Piett's badge in the original TESB being mirrored (on the wrong side of his chest), before the Special Edition fixed it.
  9. comradepitrovsky Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2017
    star 3
    I think this is the best attitude to have. Like, the bit from Alan Moore's Superman story -- "This is an imaginary story. But aren't they all?" No longer being 'canon' doesn't mean they didn't happen, and we can like the new without losing the old.
  10. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 7
    Well, since @Sniper_Wolf tagged me I suppose I ought to briefly enter this bear pit.

    I still have rather major reservations over the ST films, but that hasn't prevented me from having enjoyed Bloodline far more than I ever expected - it's all in the execution. Similarly I anticipate enjoying Phasma. Where Inferno Squad is concerned I've enjoyed talking about that online rather more than the book itself.

    In other eras, I have liked a great deal of what they're doing - much of it built around the axis of what effect the Clone Wars truily had on the galaxy, with the consequences reverberating for decades rather than years. At the same time being locked off from doing big Luke, Han and Leia has forced the development of new characters and stories in a way that has unexpectedly positive. I greatly disliked the tendency in the late post-ROTJ to boil the galaxy down to Skywalker-Solo family, so anything that gets away from that and really expands the universe is good.

    Being able to enjoy The Clone Wars without reservation and then follow that into Rebels was another unexpected bonus. While Rogue One had sequences that I've wanted to see on-screen for about 20 years and really put the 'war' into Star Wars. So why did the Rebels say to Luke Skywalker: Oh, you want to fly in this big battle? Sure, why not? Because everyone else they had was dead.

    Finally, the Great Reboot actually triggered the question of how important canonicity is to me and my answer ended up being: Not very.
  11. Force Smuggler Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7
    I'm just multi-versing everything. The EU up through the NJO series is my preferred timeline but the NEU, drafts of all of the movies, previous releases of the OT and PT, the OT Infinities comics, William Shakespeare books, Jedi Academy kid books, Lego games, alternate endings of the games, Waru's universe, Jacen's visions, etc. are all valid imo.
  12. SpecForce Trooper Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2016
    star 4
    It doesn't matter that the EU isn't "canon". At the end of the day canonicity is meaningless. What does matter is that the EU is discontinued. Once we get more EU stories there won't be reason to complain. I don't care if it's not considered canon by the mouse.
    Last edited by SpecForce Trooper, Sep 11, 2017
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  13. unironically Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2017
    star 1
    @JediBatman That actually sucks, I wish I could unsee that. If ROTJ were as disappointing to me as TFA, I'm sure my attention would eventually divert to little details like that whenever I'd attempt to watch it. In other words, there is so little in the Force Awakens that's worth defending or analyzing, you could almost say it's more productive to just min/max in this case, to try and search for additional faults with the film or to make some up. That way you'd at least feel like you're building towards something and not be handicapped in a conversation.
  14. Ewoklord Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2014
    star 1

    ...
    wat
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  15. DarkEagle Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2009
    star 4
    It's ok I guess?[face_dunno] I really like R1 and Rebels, and BF2 looks promising. NuEU has better character diversity which is great. But, man, I just don't really care about a lot of the stories they're trying to tell. Not a lot actually happens in them and so it's hard to get attached. Plus I find the ST to be a poor continuation of where the story left off at the end of ROTJ, so that's another strike.
  16. TrandoJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2011
    star 4
    My short answer is yes and no, my long answer is also yes and no.

    I was devastated when Disney announced the dissolution of the Expanded Universe, as I felt there was still good content to come where the likes of Dark Horse was concerned. I had mixed feelings over the post-NJO eras, but it comes to my love of Star Wars there has always been mixed feelings in just about every area. As it stands right now I prefer the old canon to the new canon, however I have yet to read everything. Some of my favorite EU content came from Dark Horse comics and perhaps is largely where my dissatisfaction comes from is Marvel's way of doing things produces only decent Star Wars stories with the exception of Gillen's Vader comics. I think the new canon has to play it too safe in some areas as some of the characters are likely to be getting a movie or story later, I do not like the idea of having one Star Wars movie a year at all. I fear over saturation will happen as Star Wars isn't quite the same as the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

    I loved The Force Awakens and felt it was exactly what the franchise needed to reinvigorate itself but my opinions of Rogue One are very mixed. I found the characters to be very flat minus the Imperial side which I enjoyed, to me Kyle Katarn will always be the one who stole the Death Star plans. I am very excited about The Last Jedi and do like this new Skywalker Saga and possibly will end up enjoying it more than the old-EU's continuation of the Skywalker story. My issue is having Star Wars movies that are spinoff films and not Saga films, I think the likes of Rogue One would be better suited for a mini-series event on TV/streaming. I know many people enjoyed Rogue One and my opinion probably isn't the common one, but I definitely preferred TFA over RO. Rey, Kylo Ren (he is a Darth Vader wannabe and I love it!), and Poe are wonderful characters and I can't wait to see their further adventures!

    I bought A New Dawn the day it came out and loved it immensely, that book and Rebels made me very hopeful of the new canon. I find the new canon has yet to really wow me like the old EU did, I have yet to read the likes of Bloodline, Lost Stars, and Tarkin which seem to be the best reviewed (I do own two of those and plan on getting to them!). Right now Marvel's Star Wars is merely okay, Rouge One was merely okay, and overall this new canon is merely okay. This new canon is also still in it's early days and it may just need time to become as diverse and great (and not so great) as the Expanded Universe was. In the end I still love Star Wars and will always be lurking the boards reading the thoughts of every new canon piece released.
  17. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 6

    I've found during my time here that the original BF2 made Aayla's death take on a whole new meaning for a lot of people. It hit hard and really stuck. A lot of people would disagree that it had no emotion or story. I found it heartbreaking, and it made Aayla seem more heroic than ever.

    "When her death came, I hope it was quick. She earned that much. When the 501st was finally rotated out of Felucia, Aayla Secura made a point of seeing us off personally, calling us the bravest soldiers she'd ever seen. It was a good thing we were wearing helmets, because none of us could bear to look her in the eye."

    As mentioned, the narrator was great. The battle in the Jedi Temple felt like part of the story of the end of the Jedi to me, as did the attack on the Naboo Queen sheltering fugitive Jedi. You get a real sense of the beginning of the Dark Times. Gizor Dellso's Separatist holdouts feels like party of the story of the aftermath of the Clone Wars to me. Dellso himself feels right up there with Poggle as an important Geonosian. The rogue clones made on Kamino also seemed like part of the story. The 501st being pissed at the destruction of the Death Star behind their backs was a neat touch, too. There were lots of neat touches that added to the overall story of Star Wars, imo.
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Sep 11, 2017
  18. Nobody145 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2007
    star 5
    Short answer- no.

    Long answer- There are some good parts, and because its a reboot they're partially starting from scratch so its not fair to hold that against it, but I miss the old EU, the long galactic history, the unexplored centuries ripe with potential for new characters and settings.

    Aside from the continuing OT fixation, which has always been a big part of Star Wars, the nuEU just still feels boring to me too, especially since they basically locked down the post-RotJ era just to set up for TFA. Like Jakku is just a year after Endor, and then that's it, war's over, and Mon Mothma is busy setting up a broken system and dismantling the navy so that the New Republic will be an easy target in TFA. They couldn't bother to give a little breathing room for more stories, its basically over at Jakku, then the next story is Bloodline which is pure TFA setup. A good story, but I credit that to the author (considering how forgettable most of the Aftermath trilogy was).

    In another decade or so when the nuEU has had more time to mature I might enjoy it more. I actually miss the prequel era, or rather the big Clone Wars multimedia project as then there were comics, video games, novels all set during the Clone Wars. Now we're all still basically waiting for TLJ to come out and then hopefully we can get more stories in the new era rather than just the umpteenth issue of "Vader kills things" [face_tired] or various Luke, Han and Leia clones not setting up the Hoth base post-Yavin (of course they're clones, how else could they be in so many places between Yavin and Hoth? :p ).

    The Poe Dameron comic is probably the perfect example of that "waiting pattern" problem with the nuEU. One of the few comics set close to TFA, yet they're basically just flying around on one wild goose chase or another that won't lead to Lor San Tekka. And then there was even more pointless stuff like that comic explaining how Threepio got that red arm (that was supposedly a memento of another droid, but that he got rid of in between scenes in TFA :rolleyes: ).
  19. The Positive Fan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2015
    star 4
    Yeah that one lost me too. At this point I'm starting to wonder if unironically's TFA hate is some sort of roleplay or meta-parody that I'm not quite following.
    JediBatman likes this.
  20. Stymi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2002
    star 4


    Sent from my Moto X-Wing
  21. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 6
    Yes, I quite like the new canon. Great Reboot got me back on the Star Wars lit trolley. It was easier to keep up in the 90s, got kind of impossible by the time the PT came out, and I'm digging getting in on the ground floor again.
  22. unironically Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2017
    star 1
    "What I remember about the rise of the Empire is… is how quiet it was. During the waning hours of the Clone Wars, the 501st was discreetly transferred back to Coruscant. It was a silent trip; We all knew what was about to happen, what we were about to do. Did we have any doubts? Any private traitorous thoughts? Perhaps, but no one said a word. Not on the flight to Coruscant, not when Order 66 came down, and not when we marched into the Jedi Temple. Not a word."

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    Show Spoiler

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  23. Jedi Master Scorpio Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2015
    star 4
    For the most part I have enjoyed the New Canon quite a bit. A couple of clunkers, but that happens.
    ObiWanKnowsMe likes this.
  24. JediBatman Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2015
    star 3
    @unironically

    I'm starting to think you're just a troll.

    I asked you if you were being sarcastic when you said a minor costume/continuity error was "unforgivable and really speaks volumes about what's wrong with Star Wars today". And you didn't answer.

    I brought up a somewhat infamous continuity error from Return of the Jedi to demonstrate that EVERY film has that kind of error. My point was that wether people love or hate ROTJ, they base their opinion on something more substantial. And you said:

    Bit of a double standard there isn't it?


    Would you like to explain why the hell you think "making up" flaws when discussing the quality of a movie would somehow result in meaningful conversation? Several other people have asked you about this nonsensical statement, but instead of explaining yourself you posted some BFII memes.

    On the off chance that you're not simply trying to get a rise out of people, in the future please take the time to explain yourself. So you don't like TFA. But instead of some valid arguments or solid complaints like "I don't like the characters, I don't like the humor, I don't like the aesthetic, ect." or even just saying "it's hard for me to put into words", you just posted a bunch of gifs saying things like "this stormtrooper's neck is crooked!" or "this character is making a weird face!". It makes it sound like you're just looking for little things to get unreasonably upset about. Or that you're, in your own words, "making up faults".
  25. Stymi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2002
    star 4
    Don't feed the trolls.

    Sent from my Moto X-Wing